As I wrote already to Ken, deliberate separation between "business service' and "IT service" degrades SOA capability to become a business model of execution (a lot of conversations are happening now around it in the community) and this separation will put the standard into the 'arrière-garde' position. Plus, I call for you to pay some attention to OMG Business Ecology Initiative that is going to remove unnecessary boarders between Business and Technology.
If we do not have bandwidth to deal with this topic now, it's better to skip it in full and do not box SOA in Technology; if we do this, this will be the major defeat of SOA and this standard.
If these words are not convincing, I welcome you to read book 'Ladder to SOE' were I proof that SOA is as good for Business as for Technology. Finally, look at the current position of IBM - they move SOA into Business as well (a couple days ago I talked with Rob High, Chief Architect for the SOA Foundation, about this and we shared the understanding of the SOA direction).
Thank you,
- Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Odell" <email@jamesodell.com>
To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:39:12 -0400
Am in strong agreement with this distinction, as well. I have made the
difference between "business service' and "IT service" -- keeping the
dichotomy clear. But, I can compromise on "business service' and "SOA
service".
-Jim
On 9/24/09 1:10 AM, "Rex Brooks" indited:
> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor quibbles with correct
> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree with Jeff that the
> distinction between "business service' and "SOA service" needs to be
> made. In general I think simpler is better, but as long as the grammar
> is corrected, I'd be fine with Boris's additions. I don't have any
> problems with Bob's minor rewording, but i don't see why he dropped
> Boris's additions..
>
> I'll look at it again in the morning.
>
> Cheers,
> Rex
>
> Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
>> You through away all changes that were suggested after this initial one?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM
>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>>
>> I'd recommend some minor rewording...
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM
>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>>
>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph after the first
>> paragraph. I include the first paragraph and the start of the current
>> second paragraph here for the context:
>>
>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective
>>
>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition into parts
>> and subsystems -- in particular when there are many interactions between
>> the parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a self-sustaining
>> association of plants, animals, and the hysical environment in which
>> they live. Undestanding an ecosystem often requires a holistic
>> perspective rather than one focusing on the system's individual parts.
>>
>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary
>> between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business,
>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern
>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns must be
>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes. Business
>> needs drive the development of services delivered through IT, providing
>> the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business value of
>> SOA.
>>
>> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of
>> independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, use and
>> govern those services as well as ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Rex
>>
>> Rex Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ken, Everyone,
>>>
>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is your reply to Frank:
>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives/
>>> 200906/msg00012.html
>>>
>>>
>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 PM:
>>>
>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have consistently
>>> identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT. It is
>>>
>>
>>
>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds.
>>>
>>> That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; and
>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can completely
>>> own/grok SOA.
>>>
>>> Frank"
>>>
>>> The email referenced above contains the most or all of the thread "Are
>>>
>>
>>
>>> we being ignored?"
>>>
>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than "The SOA
>>> Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary between
>>> Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is
>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern and
>>> manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns MUST be accommodated
>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes."
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rex
>>>
>>>
>>> Laskey, Ken wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to discuss adding
>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business. Below is text suggested
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email from Boris with a lot of
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and added/substituted/combined.
>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that we can bring this to
>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's call.
>>>>
>>>> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something very crisp
>>>> on this subject that I replied was exactly what we needed to say.
>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread occurred. If
>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a good contribution to the
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things come to mind.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this is not a view to
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after section 1.2, possibly as
>>>> another short section.
>>>>
>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the similarity of the
>>>> principles of the Value Networks business model" means.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey
>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax:
>>>> 703-983-1379
>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: Thursday,
>>>> September 10, 2009 11:31 AM
>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
>>>> business
>>>>
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>
>>>> I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's Introduction
>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on the business
>>>> aspects of SOA positioned across Business and IT.
>>>>
>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words for a small section on
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial draft during the
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may be found in the middle
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> of this message chain.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> - Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2
>>>>
>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 8 Sep
>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is what I write
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a strawman for this
>>>>
>> text:
>>
>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture
>>>>
>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles of the concept of
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> service orientation in the sphere of architecture. The architecture
>>>> in the organisation comprises both business architecture and
>>>> technical architecture of the systems [ref. to TOGAF 9.0]. While
>>>> SOA-based systems address aspects of the technical architecture, the
>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value Networks business model and
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a conceptual bridge between corporate
>>>> Business and IT.
>>>>
>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for Business and IT to
>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent solutions for
>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables operational and
>>>> technical flexibility, which contributes to business efficiency the
>>>> great deal. The Service Orientation concept has the potential not
>>>> only to align IT with Business, but also to align the entire company
>>>> with the market dynamics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will work on the
>>>>
>> wording.
>>
>>>> - Michael Poulin
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Francis McCabe To:
>>>> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two in the
>>>> introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business
>>>> could be very useful. It is also pretty faithful to the RAF!
>>>>
>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred *everything*
>>>> involved in interacting with services. For the RA we have to unpack
>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the multi-leveled concept of
>>>> joint action. This should go in Section 3.1.
>>>>
>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be updated and
>>>> incorporated.
>>>>
>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in.
>>>>
>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text bolding defined
>>>> concepts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date
>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rex Brooks
>> President, CEO
>> Starbourne Communications Design
>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>> Berkeley, CA 94702
>> Tel: 510-898-0670
>>
>>
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