Re: [xtm-wg] New language.xtm and country.xtm proposals

[Murray Altheim <murray.altheim@sun.com>]

Kal Ahmed wrote:
> 
> > Kal Ahmed wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Perhaps I'm way off here, but don't people use the ISO codes
> > precisely to
> > > unambiguously represent the country/language ?
> >
> > Yes they do. But the codes themselves are described as codes, not as
> > languages or countries. ISO and IETF disabuse themselves of that semantic
> > problem and basically say that if you want to refer to "German" using
> > our code, you're free to do so, but not with the idea that you're
> > doing any more than that. It's sort of like when you buy something and
> > they give you that multipage legal disclaimer that you toss away without
> > reading. "Please don't hold us responsible for the problems that might
> > occur if two or more people use our codes to represent things like
> > languages and countries that we know don't have any firm semantic
> > boundaries, that if you use 'English' between yourselves you agree
> > that it's just a proxy for whatever you think 'English' is."
> >
> > My updated topic maps do not use "ISO Language Code" as the typing
> > topic, but of the updates simply describes the PSIs as instances of
> > languages or countries, since that semantic (as I've been for quite
> > awhile now) been trying to point out would be a fallacy.

Sorry, I mistyped. I meant to say that the updated topic maps do not
use "ISO Language Codes" as a typing topic, as simply typing them as
languages or countries would be problematic. Just as with ISO or IETF,
they are "topics to represent countries or languages." The "to represent"
is extremely important.
 
> Hmm - thats a shame, because I think that a set of PSIs for both the
> countries themselves would be a major step forward in permitting consistent
> topic map merging. Of course, I fully agree with your assertion the codes
> are not the countries, but PSIs *based on* those codes could serve as a
> starting point for such a topic map (and yes, I do realise that there are
> geo-political issues and historical boundary changes which have to be
> resolved or side-stepped by such a topic map).

That's precisely what the PSIs do. They take the same form as an ISO
code. Those people willing to use them take the same risks as using 
the codes. They are proxies for whatever an author believes "Germany"
or "English" means to them.
 
> > As for debating this much further, I've been trying to make plain that
> > I want this process to occur in the group. I find Lars Marius' tactic
> > of posting this now perhaps suits his agenda but is simply requiring
> > that I either take part in an unformed discussion now or bow out
> 
> I'm sorry if you feel that I am uninformed. I believe that I am only
> uninformed about your perspective on language.xtm and coutry.xtm, hence my
> question.

"Unformed" not "uninformed." I hardly think you uninformed.

> > and wait until we have a proper process under which to discuss this
> > and come to real resolution over the issues. I prefer to bow out and
> > wait the several weeks until Montreal.
> 
> That is a pity as I am not able to attend the meeting at Montreal and I feel
> that I would like to contribute to this discussion. If you are not willing
> to do so then there is no point in banging my head against this particular
> wall. I have plenty of others that also require precious forehead skin.

Don't say that last sentence after too many beers. Someone might get
the wrong idea. :-)

Murray

...........................................................................
Murray Altheim, SGML/XML Grease Monkey  <mailto:murray.altheim&#64;sun.com>
XML Technology Center
Sun Microsystems, 1601 Willow Rd., MS UMPK17-102, Menlo Park, CA 94025

     i am going to see if i cannot reform insects in general
     i have constituted myself a missionary extraordinary 
     and minister plenipotentiary and entomological to bring
     idealism to the little struggling brothers -- archy (1927)

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