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Subject: RE: [tosca-interop] some questions about the csar
- From: Matt Rutkowski <mrutkows@us.ibm.com>
- To: "Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 08:08:22 -0600
Hi Chin,
It is no problem at all. What
Derek said makes sense that it was assumed that when orchestrators saw
"RPM" it would be a well-known package type and the provider
could choose whatever installer they would like (e.g. "yum")
at that point.
We do want to create more interesting
and complex models within the SC for future interop. events and for testing
and am looking forward to Huawei's ideas contributing to them.
Kind regards,
Matt
From:
"Qinjin (Chin)"
<chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To:
Derek Palma <dpalma@vnomic.com>,
Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc:
Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>,
"tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org" <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date:
08/23/2013 04:25 AM
Subject:
RE: [tosca-interop]
some questions about the csar
Sent by:
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Hi ALL,
Thank you for your answer. And I think I just make the demo more
complex which indeed is a simply thing. The demo would install the software
online with yum, rpm etc. which would install the latest version of the
apache, mysql, and php. But we make it complex that we think the
developer may want use the specific version of the software, so we
think the developer should download the software and should make them as
the deployartifacts which should be referenced in the CSAR.
Sorry to think a simply thing
more complex, and apologize if make you uncomfortable.
Best Regards
Jin Qin
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------
From: Derek Palma [mailto:dpalma@vnomic.com]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:32 AM
To: Matt Rutkowski
Cc: Qinjin (Chin); Zhangyi (AA); Thomas Spatzier; tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [tosca-interop] some questions about the csar
Hi,
Just thought I'd add a few clarifications:
1) For the initial interop we assumed RHEL Linux 6.3 only because it was
convenient for the participants. The reason it is not in the CSAR is primarily
because we only support one kind of deployment, i.e. there are not different
deployment artifacts for different kinds of Linuxes. Until we actually
support different versions of Linux such as SLES or Ubuntu, which would
require different deployment artifacts, we did not feel it necessary to
add this information since it would not affect the behavior of our implementations.
2) The deployment artifacts need to be deployed by the TOSCA Runtime. Specifically
for RPMs, the RPMs listed need to be installed into the RHEL 6.3 OS by
the TOSCA Runtime and need to be in placed before the install, configure,
and start operations for the respective nodes execute. Your TOSCA Runtime
can simply use yum, rpm or any other reasonable mechanism to install the
RPM. Something like "yum install <RPM-Name>" would do it
assuming the server has access to the default YUM repos which for RHEL
assumes you have a licensed installation. The key point is that the TOSCA
Runtime is required to understand how to deploy the listed deployment artifacts
for their corresponding Node Types which is part of the declarative approach,
versus doing this in scripts or operations (the imperative approach). It
is the job of the install, configure, and start operations to make any
additional configuration and state changes after these artifacts are installed
so the deployment functions correctly.
Hope this helps.
Derek
On 8/22/2013 8:39 AM, Matt Rutkowski wrote:
Hi Chin,
Again, let me say that Thomas authored the CSAR file and its contents along
with input from Vnomic so any definitive answers on its contents and decisions
I would defer to him of course. Unfortunately with Thomas on vacation
for several weeks any detailed answers or changes to the CSAR file are
not likely. It is clear that many things in the CSAR are not covered
by v1.0 specification (in fact all the base and specific types along with
their properties) so we have all agreed at the Interop. SC to document
and these non-normative things (which is why we have an Interop. Guide
and Best practices draft document) and prioritize which items we can make
normative for v1.1.
The reality is that it is unlikely that we will be able to make any major
changes to the CSAR file currently uploaded to the OASIS SC Kavi website
before the Interop. event unless there is a major flaw in the code that
breaks someone or violates the v1.0 spec. If there are improvements that
can be made for the next version (and next event) then we can discuss these
at the SC and work together on them.
Can the CSAR be made better or more declarative or interesting in the future?
Yes. However, I believe we need to make what we have work and so far, IBM
and Vnomic have code implemented that can support deploying this CSAR and
am not aware of any issues from Fujitsu on its contents.
Given these things let me try to answer (in my opinion) what assumptions
and decisions Thomas may have made in the CSAR construction:
------------------------
>>>> 1. The server node is ok. We could
create a VM based on the requirements of the Server node. But in the CSAR
package, should we indicate which os
>>>> (in the demo we will use RHEL6.3) will be installed on
the VM ? but this information is not include in the CSAR package except
README.
I believe that most would agree that a Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP (LAMP)
stack would be assumed (pre-installed) for the OS in this demo, regardless
of Linux distribution or version. Thomas, in the README is just letting
everyone know that, for the purpose of this demo all companies may assume
RHEL 6.5. In theory, the SugarCRM app can should run with the same
BASH scripts on ANY current Linux distro. as long as the VM image has the
packages pre-installed for Apache, MySQL and PHP and all that the
install.sh scripts need do is use "chkconfig" command to make
sure they are started when the image is started.
In short, there was simply no need to detail the OS version in the TOSCA
service template and its node types for a simple demo using these assumptions.
In fact, if a company has a cloud that uses other RHEL versions (or
even distros other than RHEL) they could still conceivably do so using
this CSAR (and ignoring the "PackageType" reference to RPM below).
--------------
>>>> 2. Indeed we discuss it several weeks before. I remember
that in your opinion that the os already includes with some softwares (apache,
mysql etc)
>>>> (plz see the attachment
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. in the mail, “
it appears that they assume that the
operating system (as part of the VM, which is named "VmApache_os"
in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "SugarCRM-Defintions.xml"
file) already has the Apache
and MySQL software available.”);
but with Thomas opinion, it is just the pure os
>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
any other software. (plz
see the attachment
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. In the mail, “On
your second question: the statement in my last email is correct: the
VMs just have the base operating system
>>>>>>>>>> installed
and do not yet include any of the packages for mysql. httpd, php etc.
>>>>>>>>>> Those get installed
by deploying the DeploymentArtifacts of type OsPackageArtifact. This is
purely declarative, so that's why there is
>>>>>>>>>> no install command
in any of the scripts. Solely by the fact that those DeploymentArtifacts
are defined, the orchestrator "knows" that
>>>>>>>>>> the respective packages
have to be installed before any of the script operations run. Based on
the package type, the orchestrator
>>>>>>>>>> "knows"
which install commands to use for the packages.”)
>>>>>>>>>>> and in the CSAR
package, there are some OsPackageArtifact which provide the information
about the install package
>>>>>>>>>>> ( file type
etc.) but without reference which indicate the place to get the install
package, for example:
>>>>>>>>>>>
<ArtifactTemplate id="at-ApacheWebServer-http-packages"
>>>>>>>>>>>
name="http-packages" type="ns1:OsPackageArtifact">
>>>>>>>>>>>
<Properties>
>>>>>>>>>>>
<ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties
xmlns:ns1="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes"
>>>>>>>>>>>
packageType="rpm" xmlns="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes">
>>>>>>>>>>>
<PackageInformation packageName="httpd"/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
</ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties>
>>>>>>>>>>>
</Properties>
>>>>>>>>>>>
</ArtifactTemplate>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So which solution we
should use?
Again, Thomas really needs to answer this question as he decided to place
this package artifact property reference to an Apache RPM.
Let me first say that my assertions for question #1 (i.e. that the Linux
distro. already have the LAMP software installed) are unchanged as the
install.sh (BASH script) contents clearly assume this. Indeed, the
ApacheWebServer template may indeed need to reference the RPM package for
Apache for completeness of model or perhaps it is needed to assure that
the BASH scripts will work properly against RPM packages already in the
VM (i.e. that the install.sh, configure.sh, etc. will run properly against
the RPMs).
Perhaps Thomas should not have used "RPM type" (as this may be
confusing) since our assumption is that the RPMs are already effectively
installed (and only need to be started automatically using the "chkconfig"
command), but perhaps Thomas felt that this was still the best way
to reference the Apache (httpd) software in the CSAR file. Please
remember that "packageType" is non-normative (and we have no
proposals on treatment of these type values) so I am hopeful that you can
avoid any code assumptions when you see an "RPM" package type
and treat it as the "already installed RPM package" and
NOT the "RPM package that still needs to be installed using an install
too" (for example via "yum" tool or other tool).
If this reference (and assumptions) might break anyone trying to interop.
we can discuss this on Monday's call (will add it to the agenda) and see
what Vnomic and Fujitsu believe is correct as well. If indeed we
agree to change the CSAR because this stops a company from interop. then
we can ask Derek or Thomas (when he returns) to update the CSAR file.
So far, it does not feel to me that for this simple interop. that we need
to change the CSAR if we agree on the assumptions of how it is constructed
and it allows the most flexibility. Indeed, adding the ACTUAL install
of the RPMs via a tool like "yum" would likely introduce more
problems than for all us to continue to assume that the RPMs have already
been installed for all LAMP stack software components.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kind regards,
Matt
From: "Qinjin
(Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To: Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: "Zhangyi
(AA)" <paul.zhangyi@huawei.com>,
Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>,
"tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org"
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: 08/21/2013
08:02 PM
Subject: RE:
[tosca-interop] some questions about the csar
Sent by: <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Hi Matt,
Thank you for your answers. But I still have
some questions.
1. The server node is ok. We could create a VM based
on the requirements of the Server node. But in the CSAR package, should
we indicate which os (in the demo we will use RHEL6.3) will be installed
on the VM ? but this information is not include in the CSAR package except
README.
2.Indeed we discuss it several weeks before. I remember that in your opinion
that the os already includes with some softwares(apache, mysql etc)(plz
see the attachment 1. in the mail, “
it appears that they assume that the
operating system (as part of the VM, which is named "VmApache_os"
in the "SugarCRM-Defintions.xml" file) already
has the Apache and MySQL software available.”);
but with Thomas opinion, it is just the pure os without any other software.
(plz see the attachment
2. In the mail, “On
your second question: the statement in my last email is correct: the
VMs just have the base operating system installed and do not yet include
any of the packages for mysql. httpd, php etc.
Those get installed by deploying the DeploymentArtifacts of type OsPackageArtifact.
This is purely declarative, so that's why there is no install command in
any of the scripts. Solely by the fact that those DeploymentArtifacts are
defined, the orchestrator "knows" that the respective packages
have to be installed before any of the script operations run. Based on
the package type, the orchestrator "knows" which install commands
to use for the packages.”)and
in the CSAR package, there are some OsPackageArtifact which provide the
information about the install package( file type etc.) but without reference
which indicate the place to get the install package, for example:
<ArtifactTemplate id="at-ApacheWebServer-http-packages"
name="http-packages" type="ns1:OsPackageArtifact">
<Properties>
<ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties
xmlns:ns1="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes"
packageType="rpm" xmlns="http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/ns/2011/12/ToscaBaseTypes">
<PackageInformation packageName="httpd"/>
</ns1:OsPackageArtifactProperties>
</Properties>
</ArtifactTemplate>
So which solution we should use?
Any suggestions & comments will be appreciated.
Best Regards
Jin Qin
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------
From: tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org
[mailto:tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org]
On Behalf Of Matt Rutkowski
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:44 PM
To: Qinjin (Chin)
Cc: Zhangyi (AA); Thomas Spatzier; tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [tosca-interop] some questions about the csar
Hi Chin,
Just a reminder that Thomas is on vacation starting this week for 3 weeks
so will not likely reply before then.
Let me attempt to answer your questions (and I also asked Derek to comment)
just looking at the README (in the latest CSAR file) and the "install.sh"
scripts for Apache, MySQL and ApachePHP:
1) The README indicates that the assumed OS image is "Red Hat Enterprise
Linux (RHEL) version 6.3 x86_64 base image for the virtual machines".
In regard to "OS" and "Server" nodes:
Server Node: Each company is assumed to have an ability to allocate
a "server" (or a CPU, virtual server or virtual CPU) in their
respective cloud. When the "Server" node type is found
by the orchestrator, it should allocate such a server and attempt to provide
the "properties" requested for a "server" e.g. CPU
speed, memory etc. that are set in the Server's Node Template.
OS Node: Each company is assumed to have a repository of OS
images (VMs) available that the orchestrator would use to automatically
deploy when an "Operating System" node type was found in the
(template) model (in this case RHEL 6.3). With this assumption, there
is no need to included deployment artifacts for RHEL in the CSAR,
2) The RHEL 6.3 image is assumed to already have the Apache, MySQL and
Apache PHP already installed in the image so that when the orchestrator
executes the "install.sh" scripts for these nodes that the BASH
files simply use "chkconfig" command to make sure all these are
started as "services" when the image itself is started. This
is quite a common assumption for clouds as many applications assume a LAMPs
(Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) stack to run so it makes sense that most cloud
providers have "ready made" images with these software components
already installed.
>>> for example, Apache ("httpd" service) when the orchestrator
installs the node type "ApacheWebServer" it finds the BASH script
"scripts/ApacheWebServer/install.sh" script which simply has
the single line "chkconfig httpd on". This assumes the
"httpd" RPM packages are already installed on the RHEL 6.3 image.
There are similar assumptions for both the MySQL and ApachePHP software
packages.
Lastly, we agreed in creating the CSAR for SugarCRM to use only open
source software packages to avoid licensing issues. IBM will not be able
to legally redistribute any open source package so we cannot send you the
Apache, MySQL, etc. that we have.
Apache, MySQL and PHP support can easily be downloaded directly from their
owner's websites (free) or you can use the RPM package installer with RHEL
operating system when creating your "RHEL 6.3" image to install
them into the image directly.
----------------------------------------
Kind regards,
Matt
From: "Qinjin
(Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To: Thomas
Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>,
"tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org"
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Cc: "Zhangyi
(AA)" <paul.zhangyi@huawei.com>
Date: 08/21/2013
04:04 AM
Subject: [tosca-interop]
some questions about the csar
Sent by: <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Hi Thomas
Some questions about the CSAR, would you kindly to answer them?
1.There is no image in the csar, and also no deployment artifact for those
"OS" and "Server". So, how to ref those image during
the deployment?
2.For the components "PhpModule", "ApacheWebServer"
and "MySql", there are deployment artifacts in the service template
but without ref install files (e.g. tar, rpm...). So, how to deploy those
components?
How does IBM solve those problems?
By the way, Would you provide the version of apache, mysql and php which
you used for the demo?
Best Regards
Jin Qin
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------
----- Message from Matt Rutkowski <mrutkows@us.ibm.com>
on Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:47:00 +0000 -----
To:
|
|
cc:
|
|
Subject:
|
Re: [tosca-interop] some questions
about the demo |
Hi Chin,
Thomas is the expert on the CSAR file as he created it, but I will attempt
to answer based upon what I know and what I see in the actual SugarCRM
CSAR file (ZIP) uploaded to the TOSCA Interop SC here:
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/tosca-interop/download.php/47264/SugarCRM-20121022.zip
1. How is the Tosca container connect to the VM instance?
Just by ssh, or the other method? If by ssh, what’s the username and password
will be used?
It appears that most of the scripts assume that they are being run within
the instance itself. In that way, they are able to be run immediately
after the VM is created by the orchestration engine.
2. Have the Mysql and Apache already integrated in
the VM images and only to config them? Or VM images just provide the pure
OS, the Mysql and Apache will be installed through Tosca CSAR file? What
is the account name and password for the mysql? I still suggest to use
the same VM images for the demo. It could reduce many problems.
Looking at the scripts, it appears that they assume that the operating
system (as part of the VM, which is named "VmApache_os" in the
"SugarCRM-Defintions.xml" file) already has the Apache and MySQL
software available. The "install.sh" scripts for Apache
("httpd") and MySQL ("mysqld") both use the "chkconfig"
utility to configure and have them "autostart" as services when
the VM itself is started. The chkconfig utility is assumed to be
present on many Linux distros. and is commonly used for this purpose.
I would ask Thomas or Derek to describe how userid/passwords are managed
in the actual CSAR file we used for interop. For initial development
and testing, I would recommend using whatever userid/password you may need
(and likely it is the admin password for the operating system image of
the VM).
3. In the discussion, I remember that there is a import
and export process. Is it means that the demo will use the company A ‘s
tool to generate the CSAR file and use company B ‘s runtime environment
to deploy it with that CSAR file? We worried that the used different CSAR
may cause some problems, so we suggest that: The CSAR file generate by
the tools should be provide as soon as possible for the other company to
test their deploy demo;
Yes, the "story" will be as you have outlined. Using your
example, Company A will be Vnomic which will effectively create the ZIP
of the CSAR file (in this interop this will be equivalent / completely
identical to the "SugarCRM-20121022.zip"
file uploaded to the TOSCA Interop. SC, but it would actually contain the
SugarCRM software ZIP file. As in the Pulse demo, Vnomic would
export (or "upload") the ZIP to the IBM ISM Cloud Marketplace
where Company B (or Company C, D, etc.) would be able to download it from
and "import" it into their tools or deploy to their cloud (runtime).
I hope this helps. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong in
any of these answers.
Kind regards,
Matt
From: "Qinjin
(Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To: "tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org"
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Cc: Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>
Date: 07/16/2013
02:01 AM
Subject: [tosca-interop]
some questions about the demo
Sent by: <tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Hi all
As Huawei want to show the process of the deployment.
It means that the demo will use the CSAR file directly. So there
are some questions need to clarify:
1. How is the Tosca container connect to the VM instance?
Just by ssh, or the other method? If by ssh, what’s the username and password
will be used?
2. Have the Mysql and Apache already integrated in
the VM images and only to config them? Or VM images just provide the pure
OS, the Mysql and Apache will be installed through Tosca CSAR file? What
is the account name and password for the mysql? I still suggest to use
the same VM images for the demo. It could reduce many problems.
3. In the discussion, I remember that there is a import
and export process. Is it means that the demo will use the company A ‘s
tool to generate the CSAR file and use company B ‘s runtime environment
to deploy it with that CSAR file? We worried that the used different CSAR
may cause some problems, so we suggest that: The CSAR file generate by
the tools should be provide as soon as possible for the other company to
test their deploy demo;
Best Regards
Jin Qin
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
Huawei Nanjing Base
No 101. Software Street
Nanjing 210012, P.R.China
Tel: +86 25 566 20559
Fax: +86 25 566 24081
Mobile: +86 13851946871
E-mail:chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------
----- Message from Thomas Spatzier <thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com>
on Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:47:05 +0000 -----
To:
|
|
cc:
|
|
Subject:
|
Re: questions about demo |
Hi Jin Qin,
the current SugarCRM does not include VM images and also no references
to
images. Currently, we are assuming that the respective cloud runtime will
just provide an RHEL 6.3 x86_64 or equivalent image (Fedore or CentOS)
for
creating the VMs.
On your second question: the statement in my last email is correct: the
VMs
just have the base operating system installed and do not yet include any
of
the packages for mysql. httpd, php etc. Those get installed by deploying
the DeploymentArtifacts of type OsPackageArtifact. This is purely
declarative, so that's why there is no install command in any of the
scripts. Solely by the fact that those DeploymentArtifacts are defined,
the
orchestrator "knows" that the respective packages have to be
installed
before any of the script operations run. Based on the package type, the
orchestrator "knows" which install commands to use for the packages.
Regards,
Thomas
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cloud & Smarter Infrastructure CTO Office - Cloud Orchestration, Cloud
Standards
Tivoli Master Inventor
IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH, C397, Schoenaicher Str.
220,
D-71032 Boeblingen, Germany
thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com
| +49-7031-16-1219
IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart,
HRB 243294
From: "Qinjin (Chin)" <chin.qinjin@huawei.com>
To: Thomas Spatzier/Germany/IBM@IBMDE,
Cc: "tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org"
<tosca-interop@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: 24.07.2013 03:09
Subject: questions about demo
Hi Thomas,
VM images are supposed to be included
in the CSAR package. These
VM images should be referenced by the
corresponding NodeTemplate or
NodeTypeImplementation. But we find no clue in
the current CSAR package
that can lead to an image. So we just
wander how could you locate and
import the VM images before deploying the CRM application?
In the last email which
you reply to me mentioned that the VM
image just provide the base operation system. But in Matt’s
mail, he said
the VM image should include the Apache or Mysql. So could you discuss
with
Matt to ensure which solution IBM will
adopt? Indeed I prefer Matt’s
opinion, it could make the test more simply. And currently the scripts
are
not provide the install function.
Best Regards
Jin Qin
HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD.
(Embedded image moved to file: pic14506.jpg)huawei_logo
Huawei
Nanjing
Base
No 101.
Software
Street
Nanjing
210012,
P.R.China
Tel: +86
25
566 20559
Fax: +86
25
566 24081
Mobile:
+86
13851946871
E-mail:chin.qinjin@huawei.com
www.huawei.com
----------------------------------------------
[attachment "pic14506.jpg" deleted by Matt Rutkowski/Austin/IBM]
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