Re: [ubl-csc] Setting up the subcommittee portal for the public

[Tim McGrath <tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au>]

you are correct. the public view of the SCs is still not correct.  I did 
mention this in an email to Karl but i have not seen any improvement on  
that issue.  He did say..

". Re: openness and sharing of information, we're still tweaking the 
sharing settings, and obviously don't have it quite rights. There's no 
change in philosophy; we aren't trying to restrict anything. We just 
need to figure out the right settinngs. "

i think Ken raises many post-cutover issues that we need to keep track 
of.  Perhaps it is time we called a CSC meeting (traditionally a 
scheduling nightmare) with Karl or Scott to get us all synched up on this.

i have also made some comments inline...

G. Ken Holman wrote:

> Sorry, folks, to take up bandwidth, but I'm lost here.  I'm trying to 
> look at my subcommittee from different perspectives:
>
>   (1) - me as chair
>   (2) - a participating voting (vested or prospective) member
>   (3) - an observer who is a member of OASIS
>   (4) - a public observer who is not a member of OASIS
>
> And it isn't clear yet to me what the new Kavi system is providing for 
> outsiders ... what I see are:
>
>   (1) - an administrative interface for the chairman to manage
>         membership, documents, events, ballots, actions, etc.
>   (2) - a member interface to view and manage documents, events,
>         ballots, actions, etc.
>   (3) - a visitor interface to only view only those documents,
>         events, ballots, actions, etc. that have been made public
>
> .... but what about the public non-OASIS observer ... if the 
> subcommittee activities are to be "open to public scrutiny", then I'm 
> not sure how the "public non-OASIS visitor" gets to see documents that 
> have been made public.
>
> I also didn't see an email interface in Kavi (but I've gone into 
> detail more about that below....).
>
> Given our policies of openness, should every document we make or post 
> be publicly viewable?
>
> Also ... where does Kavi leave the subcommittee home pages ... or 
> "portals" as they have been called in the past?
>
> At 2003-03-27 18:12 -0800, Jon Bosak wrote:
>
>> As far as I can tell, by the way, FPSC is now fully functional.
>
>
> Great ... and I would like to set everything up to get going ASAP now 
> that the dust has settled.  But ....
>
> I think I can only see FPSC when I sign in as a member under "TC 
> Member Page" and look at the list of subgroups at the bottom left ... 
> but I cannot find a "public" home page for the subcommittee for 
> non-members to visit ... although other portals exist, there is not a 
> page for:
>
>   http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/fpsc/
>
> The old FSSC page did get preserved in the system conversion:
>
>   http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/fssc/
>
> ... but I haven't received any FTP instructions for getting into the 
> ubl subdirectory to remove the old and add the new.
>
> I note that the portal referenced at the bottom of:
>
>   http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl
>
> pointing to:
>
>   http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/lcsc/
>
> still exists ... but given the date in the top right-hand corner, it 
> looks like it hasn't been changed since the changeover date.  I don't 
> see on this new page how an outside visitor accesses the Kavi 
> components, such as document listings and meeting minutes.
>
> So, as a subcommittee chair, I see I have a number of things to do, 
> but I don't see how to do all of them yet:
>
> (1) - membership
>     - this was described in an earlier note:
>       http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-csc/200303/msg00057.html
>     - I go into the UBL page, to my subgroup, and to "Manage Roster"
>       which allows me to make up my SC membership *out of the TC
>       membership* which requires me to get my committee members to ASAP
>       become prospective members of the TC
>     - I make voting contributors "members with a vote"
>     - I make prospective voting contributors "members without a vote"
>       until such time as they are allowed to have a vote
>     - I make non-voting contributors "members without a vote" without
>       any plans to make them voting members, because they have expressed
>       an interest to participate but not to have a vote
>     - are lurkers "observers" or "visitors"?

i would suggest observers - but i am not sure we have any.

>
>
> (2) - email list
>     - the ezmlm mailer for ubl-fpsc seems responsive, so I tried to sign
>       up a non-member email address
>     - as owner of the list I was asked through the ezmlm interface to
>       authorize the new address, and after doing so, the new address was
>       welcomed as a member of the list
>     - so, as chair, if I get a request from someone who I don't know to
>       join the FPSC mail list as a lurker, I have no way of knowing if
>       they are an OASIS member or not to warrant being "pushed" the
>       information that goes through the FPSC mail list
>     - what is my procedure as chair to vet the qualifications of the
>       person asking to joint the mail list?
>     - oh, I also tried a "who" to ubl-fpsc-request@lists.oasis-open.org
>       which was the way in the past to get membership information; that
>       appears to be interpreted now as an unrecognized command and just
>       gives help information ...
>       - how would I review the list of members on the mail list?
>       - I note the Email button top right only takes me to archives

i am not sure the ezmlm interface is how new members join.  did your 
attempt get any messages sent to the new list? i.e. did it work?

>
> (3) - home page
>     - if we are still to have subcommittee home pages ("portals") then I
>       need FTP access to the UBL directory in order to set up my new 
> fpsc/
>       subdirectory and remove the old fssc/ subdirectory
>       - do we have new templates to work with (the old home page worked
>         on templates)?
>       - by what criteria do we put information in Kavi or in a 
> subdirectory
>         of our home page?
>     - if we are not to have subcommittee home pages, then do we do all
>       of our documents through the member interface?  If so, how do we
>       convey our internal workings publicly according to our transparency
>       policies 

you can create folders and deposit documents into them but you cannot do 
this with FTP - you must use the Kavi interface.  The actual home page 
for TC and SCs is also templated by Kavi.  What we can do is edit  the 
content of two frames within this window. i think they are called 
"notes" and "description".

>
>
> (4) - documents
>     - I note on the UBL home page that the "documents" button top right
>       brings up a list of public documents for visitors
>     - if we are not to have subcommittee home pages, how does an outside
>       visitor access the equivalent document list for the subcommittee?
>
> Perhaps have there been subcommittee chair instructions that I haven't 
> seen yet regarding setting up all of the above ... or perhaps I'm off 
> on a tangent not being able to map the Kavi functionality to what we 
> had before. 

Apart from the public view issue (mentioned at the top) the only 
operational difference between SC and TC management is that in the 
members selection of the SC roster  you only see the TC members (SC is a 
subset of TC).

i think you will be frustrated if you try and map old to new 
functionality.  we have traded our faithful VW Beetle for the latest 
beemer with all the safety controls and high-tech wizardry that that 
entails.  some folks call it progress, but around these parts we ain't 
so sure.  you can't tinker under the hood any more.

>
>
> Has a description been written up yet that maps all of the old 
> functionality to all of the new functionality?  How are other SC 
> chairs and members coping with the above issues?  *Are* the other SC 
> chairs and members coping yet with the above issues?  For example, I 
> noted above how I couldn't find up-to-date LCSC information when I 
> approached the OASIS site as an outsider (though I could find 
> information once I signed in). 

you are correct - we have not solved the public view issue. it is with OASIS

>
>
> I wasn't going to start active FPSC discussions until the home page 
> was set up and I mastered all of the administrivia so that (1) the 
> public can follow what we are doing, and (2) I can instruct members 
> what is expected of them and be in a position to answer their 
> questions as to what I'm doing as chair, so that (3) any work we did 
> from the very start would be both transparently viewable and reliably 
> catalogued.
>
> Thanks for your patience with me ... sorry if I've been too dense to 
> miss something obvious.  I hope the questions above help others who 
> might be similarly confused.


>
> ................... Ken
>
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