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Subject: Re: [ws-sx] Use-Case and Proposed Solution for i010 (long)


Thanks, Jan, that works for me and provides the flexibility required to 
accomodate the use-case. I agree that with this addition we can close 
the issue.


- prateek

>[PM] Yes, thats reasonable. That was the main concern here. I do think
>that some additional language is needed in section 9.1. How about adding
>something like the following after 1718:
>
>The requestor MAY provide proof of possession of the key associated with
>the OnBehalfOf identity by including a signature in the RST security
>header. Additional signed supporting tokens describing the OnBehalfOf
>context MAY also be included within the RST security header.
>[\PM]
>
>I would modify the proposed text slightly:
>
>The requestor MAY provide proof of possession of the key associated with
>the OnBehalfOf identity by including a signature in the RST security
>header generated using the OnBehalfOf token that signs the primary
>signature of the RST (i.e. endorsing supporting token concept from
>WS-SecurityPolicy). Additional signed supporting tokens describing the
>OnBehalfOf context MAY also be included within the RST security header.
>
>How does this sound to you?
>
>[PM]
><snip>
>
>It is a separate issue how the STS or any consumer is going to resolve 
>all of these identities and make its judgements.
>But that problem isnt peculiar to the use-case; its a general problem 
>with the WSS 1.x specifications.
>[\PM]
>
>Yes I agree that this is out of scope of WS-SX and WS-Trust in
>particular.
>
>It seems to me that we are both in agreement that your scenario can be
>done without changing the semantics of OnBehalfOf element, right? 
>
>Are you OK to change issue 10 to add the proposed text into section 9.1
>after line 1718 and be done with it?
>
>Thanks,
>--Jan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Prateek Mishra [mailto:prateek.mishra@oracle.com] 
>Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: ws-sx@lists.oasis-open.org
>Cc: Jan Alexander; Darren Platt
>Subject: Re: [ws-sx] Use-Case and Proposed Solution for i010 (long)
>
>
>  
>
>>After reading the document it seems to me that your scenario can be
>>    
>>
>done
>  
>
>>by using the current WS-Trust specification without requiring any
>>changes.
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
>[PM]
>OK, that would be great. My interest is in making sure that the use-case
>
>is accommodated, with or without changes to the spec.
>[\PM]
>
>  
>
>>Here is how I would do that using the current specs:
>>
>>I would use WS-SecurityPolicy endorsing supporting token concept
>>(additional token inside the wsse:Security header that is used to sign
>>the primary message signature); the endorsing token will represent the
>>on-behalf-of party; this token will then be linked from within
>>OnBehalfOf RST element using STR.
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>[PM]
>
>Making a little diagram here:
>
>    SOAP<
>                Header< Intermediary token and signature1; Endorsing 
>token and signature2 over signature1>
>                Body<...OnBehalfOf(STR reference to endorsing token)
>...>
>               >
>
>Right?
>
>Suppose we make this a little more explicit. Lets assume that the 
>OnBehalfOf identity is expressed by a X.509 certificate and an 
>associated private-public key pair.
>
>Then we have:
>
>     SOAP<
>               Header<Intermediary token and signature1; BST(X.509) and 
>signature2 over signature1>
>               Body< ..OnBehalfOf(STR-Direct Reference to BST(X.509))..>
>               >
>[\PM]
>
>  
>
>>By using endorsing supporting token to represent on-behalf-of party,
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>initiator proves the possession of the endorsing supporting token's key
>>by signing the primary message signature with it. 
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>[PM] Yes, thats reasonable. That was the main concern here. I do think 
>that some additional language is needed in section 9.1. How about
>adding something like the following after 1718:
>
>The requestor MAY provide proof of possession of the key associated with
>
>the OnBehalfOf identity by
>including a signature in the RST security header. Additional signed 
>supporting tokens describing the OnBehalfOf
>context MAY also be included within the RST security header.
>
>
>[\PM]
>
>  
>
>>Because the endorsing signature is contained in message wsse:Security
>>header, it is not necessary to extend the OnBehalfOf element to allow
>>signatures in it.
>>
>>The advantage of this approach is that it uses existing concepts
>>    
>>
>defined
>  
>
>>by WS-SecurityPolicy to represent the on-behalf-of party; it does not
>>define a new way to represent and authenticate it.
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>[PM] I agree this is a good idea. [\PM]
>
>  
>
>>Regardless of this, I would push back on your proposal in section
>>    
>>
>3.2.2.
>  
>
>>in your document, because I have security concerns regarding this
>>proposal. By signing only reference(s) to on-behalf-of tokens, you
>>    
>>
>don't
>  
>
>>bind those tokens and the signature to the message instance. Therefore
>>an attacker can take those out and use them in different message and
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>information in OnBehalfOf will still be valid. Please note that
>>endorsing token approach does not have this weakness, since the
>>endorsing signature signs the primary message signature, therefore it
>>cannot be used with any other message.
>>
>>    
>>
>[PM] This is a suggestion or a starting point only. I take your point 
>that it is vulnerable to certain threats as stated. [\PM]
>
>  
>
>>It is not clear to me why are you proposing to allow multiple
>>STRs/tokens inside OnBehalfOf element. Your scenario does not seem to
>>require this and I cannot find any other which would require using
>>multiple tokens to identify on-behalf-of party. Can you please help me
>>understand why do you think this is necessary?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>[PM]
>
>If you look at the use-case document (flow 1a and 2), there are two 
>tokens that describe the application security context:  a signed
>supporting token describing the user and a HR signing token, together 
>with a signature. This captures the notion that the HrApp
>is acting on behalf of Joe.
>
>I actually believe your solution would support this as well. Re-doing 
>the SOAP diagram we now have:
>
>     SOAP<
>               Header<Intermediary token and signature1; 
>SupportingToken; BST(X.509) and signature2 over (signature1 and 
>Supporting Token)>
>               Body< ..OnBehalfOf(STR-Direct Reference to BST(X.509))..>
>               >
>
>Does that work for you?
>
>It is a separate issue how the STS or any consumer is going to resolve 
>all of these identities and make its judgements.
>But that problem isnt peculiar to the use-case; its a general problem 
>with the WSS 1.x specifications.
>
>[\PM]
>
>
>References:
>*Use-Case and Proposed Solution for i010 <msg00108.html>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-sx/200602/msg00108.html
>*
>
>  
>




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