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Subject: Re: [wsrp-wsia] [I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?



Why are we struggling to with abstract names? How about using something 
concrete and related to what we are trying to define? I believe 
'portlet' is a widely used term in the portal world regardless of the 
specific technology.

What do you think about using 'portlet type' and 'portlet'?

Alejandro

Monica Martin wrote:
> Just a thought....in another development specification I participate in
> they differentiate the entity/instance in this way:
> 
> Structure: Entity type
> Instance: Entity
> 
> Entity and entity type are used.  This doesn't answer the question on
> 'session' however.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:50 AM
> To: Gil Tayar; wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?
> 
> 
> The very last thing we can afford is any potential confusion about 
> our specification in an already crowded marketplace. I would prefer a 
> term that we could use and own that it would not be possible to 
> misconstrue or transpose between applications. Lacking that I think 
> we should use a prefix and ultraverbose naming convention a la 
> wsrp-wsia:serviceEntityReferenceHandle--that is an extreme and 
> not-serious example to illustrate a point.
> 
> We still have to sell this, and confusing terminology, or even 
> terminology which is likely to be confusing in practice probably 
> won't fly. That has always been the problem with Instance, Session, 
> et al. At some point, though, we will have to decide on something. 
> I'm just not sure what it should be. Would it be beyond the bounds to 
> simply invent something like: servsession?
> 
> Ciao,
> Rex
> At 3:05 PM +0200 10/9/02, Gil Tayar wrote:
> 
>>In case somebody doesn't want to implement it, they can always do an
> 
> "empty"
> 
>>implementation - just like in in the "initEnvironment" operation.
>>
>>I think the arguments for it being _in_ the markup are stronger.
> 
> Anybody
> 
>>object?
>>
>>Gil
>>P.S. Having a thing implemented differently does not mean that a
>>_conceptual_ model of this thing shouldn't be defined.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com]
>>Sent: Wed, October 09, 2002 14:58
>>To: wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Of course the reason we haven't named it is that different
> 
> implementations
> 
>>will us it differently:
>> - OO-style => really a runtime instance of the entity with various
>>instance variables
>> - Servlet-style => really a reference to the servlet + a reference to
> 
> a
> 
>>transient session
>>
>>Both of these are transient runtime refinements on the entity, but
> 
> neither
> 
>>instance nor session are accurate descriptions of both.
>>
>>My primary argument for releaseRefHandle()  being in the Markup factor
>>derives from the operations that can return a refHandle are in that
> 
> factor.
> 
>>The arguments against are that it should be optional (& this is a
> 
> required
> 
>>factor) and that it is a lifecycle management operation rather than a
>>markup oriented operation. I would be ok with it in either factor
> 
> though.
> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                      Gil Tayar
>>
>>                      <Gil.Tayar@webcol        To:
>>"'wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'"                     
>>                      lage.com>
>><wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>                                
>>                                               cc:
>>
>>                      10/09/2002 08:26         Subject:  RE:
> 
> [wsrp-wsia]
> 
>>[I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?     
>>                      AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>The operation is not really about managing entities. It is about
> 
> managing
> 
>>the
>>yet-to-be-named-lets-see-if-we-can-live-without-a-name-for-it-and-which
> 
> -I-am
> 
>>-not-allowed-to-call-an-instance which is the runtime manifestation of
> 
> an
> 
>>entity, whose handle can be "by chance" a handle to an entity.
>>
>>As such, it has to be in the Markup interface, because that is the
> 
> _only_
> 
>>interface which deals with the
>>yet-to-be-named-lets-see-if-we-can-live-without-a-name-for-it-and-which
> 
> -I-am
> 
>>-not-allowed-to-call-an-instance.
>>
>>To prove this: let's say I do not implement the Entity Management
>>interface.
>>Would I maybe want to implement the releaseRefHandle? The answer,
> 
> IMNSHO,
> 
>>is
>>a resounding "Yes!" - I would like to enable the Consumer to tell me
> 
> when
> 
>>it's finished with my
>>yet-to-be-named-lets-see-if-we-can-live-without-a-name-for-it-and-which
> 
> -I-am
> 
>>-not-allowed-to-call-an-instance.
>>
>>The other case (let's for a second assume I am able not to implement
> 
> the
> 
>>Markup interface) - if I do not implement Markup, but implement Entity
>>Management. Would I need to implement releseRefHandle()? The answer,
>>IMNSHO,
>>is an emphatic "No!" - all my "release"-ment needs are resolved by
>>releaseEntityHandle().
>>
>>Humorously yours,
>>Gil
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com]
>>Sent: Wed, October 09, 2002 14:13
>>To: Gil Tayar
>>Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I went back and forth between these two when submitting the
> 
> recommendation.
> 
>>I finally came down on the Entity Management side as the operation
> 
> really
> 
>>is about managing entities (in this case transient refinements on an
>>entity). Also, the Markup factor is required of all Producers and this
>>clearly is not a required operation (can always just let things time
> 
> out).
> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                      Gil Tayar
>>
>>                      <Gil.Tayar@webcol        To:
>>wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
>>                      lage.com>                cc:
>>
>>                                               Subject:  RE:
> 
> [wsrp-wsia]
> 
>>[I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?
>>                      10/09/2002 12:39
>>
>>                      AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Rich,
>>I agree, but I think it should be in the Markup factor. The refHandle
> 
> can
> 
>>be
>>an entityHandle, in which case there is a destroyEntities operation, or
> 
> it
> 
>>can be a dynamically generated handle, in which case the operation
> 
> should
> 
>>be
>>in the markup interface.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gil Tayar [mailto:Gil.Tayar@webcollage.com]
>>Sent: Wed, October 09, 2002 06:34
>>To: wsrp-wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Subject: [wsrp-wsia] [I#105] Why no releaseRefHandle()?
>>
>>
>>Topic: Interface
>>Class: Technical
>>Raised by: Rich Thompson
>>Title: Why no releaseRefHandle()?
>>Date Added: 9-Oct-2002
>>Document Section: Interfaces/6
>>Description:
>>There are times the Consumer 'knows' that a refHandle will no longer be
>>used. This operation would allow an explicit signalling of this to the
>>Producer. I would suggest adding it to the EntityManagement factor.
>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 



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