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Subject: RE: [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF TC March 5th. 2002

Hi John/ All,

We had a conversation for over an hour on the various issues relating to the
spec. In the minutes I have tried to put some of the main points which were
raised in a paragraph. I accept that I might not have done justice to that
During the meeting Eric was asked to send some of the ideas he was talking
about in a mail to the group. I recorded that in the minutes. I do not agree
with you interpretation and anyone in the group can mail with proposals and
ideas. As regards the word "problems", maybe I should have used other
language. However, what I was hearing is that people wanted to change parts
of the spec. I think the word "problems" matched how some people were
discussing the spec.

We could have an agenda item at the beginning of each meeting where minutes
are agreed and also where any matters arising are discussed.

I share your frustration with people describing the current spec as
unworkable. We are also working with XLIFF and doing fine on the current
spec. Considerable work went into achieving the 1.0 spec and I don't think
it is helpful for that to be dismissed.

Although I abstained in yesterday's vote, I am hopeful that the debate which
will follow it will lead to improvements in the spec. I would like to hear
of actual examples which relate to the issues which have been brought up.
TMX was given as an example of something with little interoperability, but I
think that the issues with TMX are not that similar to those we discussed. 



-----Original Message-----
From: John Reid [mailto:jreid@novell.com]
Sent: 06 March 2002 13:34
To: Peter.Reynolds@Berlitz.ie; xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF TC March 5th. 2002

From your minutes it sounds as though only Eric can propose changes to
the spec. That is not how I understood the vote to revise 1.0. Isn't any
member allowed to make proposals? I don't recall limiting who nor what
could be proposed. The only limitation I know of is that the proposal
must be posted on the list as a proposal (not a complaint about what one
believes is "wrong" with the spec) so that specific comments to that
proposal can be made.  

I also take exception to the phrasing, "Problems with interoperability"
since these are only _perceived_ problems. Suggestions to "correct"
these introduce other serious problems that were discussed and rejected
at one time (we did have the namespace and open/closed list discussions
in the previous work). 

We are not correcting "problems," a few members do not like some things
and want to change them. They are extremely vocal and refer to the spec
as unworkable and -- what was it -- an 800 pound gorilla?  RWS Group,
Alchemy, Pass Engineering,  opentag.com, and the Okapi Framework seem to
refute this. There are even some of us producing and using XLIFF
internally, with considerable success. 

This is not to say that there are no improvements to be made. That is
why we formed this TC. However, we are a wishy-washy group to vote for
Committee Specification one day and a month later cancel that vote. That
is more detrimental to a standard than a few perceived problems.


>>> Peter Reynolds <Peter.Reynolds@Berlitz.ie> 3/6/02 2:35:14 AM >>>
Minutes of the XLIFF TC March 5th. 2002
1/ Roll call
Present: Jonathan Clark, Tony Jewtushenko, Milan Karasek, Caroline
Mark Levins, Christian Lieske,, Enda McDonnell  John Reid, Peter
Reinhard Schaler, Eric D. Friedman
Observers: Brian Briggs
Apologies: John Corrigan, Yves Savourel
2/ Conformance Subcommittee
Reinhard had posted a new charter for the conformance subcommittee. It
proposed that we accept this and set up the subcommittee. This was
unanimously. The following people have agreed to join this committee at
February 5th. meeting: Reinhard Schaler, Enda McDonnell, Peter
Tony Jewtushenko and John Reid. 

3/ Schema Subcommittee/ Discussion on Specification
The discussion which started with the report back from the Schema
subcommittee became a more general discussion on the specification with
proposal that work should be done to edit this, correcting issues which
This discussion started with Enda reporting back on the Schema
subcommittee's discussion about attribute list and whether recommended
should be open or closed. This led to a more general discussion on the
schema. Problems with interoperability were pointed out. Mechanism for
solving these issues were discussed such as using namespaces. There was
a suggestion that some of the attributes could become elements allowing
value to be PCDATA rather than have an open list. 
The case was put forward for revising the specification and to come up
a 1.1 spec. It was pointed out that version 1.1 of the spec might not
compatible with version 1.0.
A motion was put for ward stating that we wish to revise the 1.0
specification prior to doing the subcommittee work. This was carried
with 6
votes in favour and 4 abstentions. 
It was also agreed that the work on the schema subcommittee would be
Eric is to send a mail to the XLIFF list putting forward his thinking
these issues and we will have a discussion using the mailing list. We
also come up with example documents which will highlight practical
The deadline for agreeing which recommendations we will accept was set
May 1st. with the spec being decided at our face to face meeting in

4/ XLIFF Whitepaper 
This will be postponed until 1.1 spec is produced.  Given the 1.1
initiative,  the existing 1.0 whitepaper (posted to Yahoo! egroup
DataDefinition) will not be posted to the Oasis XLIFF TC website. 

5/ Face to Face Meeting
The proposed dates will be either 9/10 of May (week before LRC
or a combination of two of the days in the week following the LRC. 
Tony J.
to send out proposed dates and wait for feedback on attendees. 

6/ New Business From Yves
 "At some point I think it would be a good idea to have actual
implementations for a XLIFF interface. An open-source and free
implementation in, let's say, Java and C++ (and add a COM layer to the
so any developer could easily add support fro reading and writing
document."   This proposal was originally discussed as part of XLIFF
1.0 as
a goal for future (post 1.0) work,  but was postponed once TC proposal
OASIS was initiated.  Discussion points included concern that an
API and/or source code may require support,  and may have liability
implications and release and ownership by the TC may be prohibited by
- Tony J. to investigate and confirm.  After some discussion,  it was
to postpone discussion of this work until the larger architectural
issues of
XLIFF 1.1 are resolved.   This item will be added to the agenda for
Face-to-face meeting and if deemed appropriate,  deliverables will be
at that time. 
New Business from Jonathan:  Jonathan will be travelling to the Lisa
conference next week,  and will therefore be able to participate (along
Yves) at XLIFF+LISA discussions and negotiations.  LISA & OASIS
will extend special invitations to targetted LISA members to
participate in
XLIFF TC.  Yves will represent XLIFF TC at the Saturday meeting of
(Jonathan is invited as well). 

7/ Next meeting to take place Tuesday 4pm,  19 March 2002.  Contact
are the same as usual,  and will be sent in a reminder a day or two in
advance of the meeting. 

Peter Reynolds, Software Development Manager, Berlitz GlobalNET
3, West Pier Business Campus, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin, Ireland
Tel: +353-1-202-1280
Fax: +353-1- 202-1299
Web Site: http//www.berlitzglobalnet.com
"Don't just translate it, BerlitzIT" http//www.berlitzIT.com 

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