[huml-comment] RE: Human Markup Language 1.0 considered harmful

[Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>]

Hi Dennis,

Race is an issue we discussed at some length early on in the Phase 1 
work. You would have to go the email archives on the OASIS site for 
this time last year to see what that discussion covered. Regardless, 
our decision on the including race is based on the principle that our 
specification is not intended to specify definitions for terms in 
common usage, but to incorporate them in such a way as to be 
interoperable. Race, as such, like scars, marks and tattoos, comes 
from the field of public safety as practiced, not as a prescription 
for how it OUGHT to be used or discarded when practiced or used or 
understood from any particular philosophical viewpoint. Since you are 
commenting from a position of admittedly  incomplete sunderstanding 
what the Human Markup Language is designed to be and to do, it seems 
somewhat dubious to attempt to answer all of your specific 
criticisms. We took a year and a half of very intensive work to 
produce the smallest possible set of base terms which serve mostly as 
placeholders for essential concepts from which more specific terms 
can be derived and put into applications in a way that allows for 
some standard descriptions of human characteristics and human 
communication.

As for self assertion, it stems from a problem which we avoid 
entirely, authentication, authorization and certification, and the 
prospect of testing to see if there is any way to determine whether 
any given entity is a currently living biological human being 
actually engaged interactively with a computer at one end-point of a 
real-time communication interaction on the Internet or in any given 
network. When we simply accept self-assertion and ONLY begin to apply 
our language in applications AFTER some authentication has taken 
place, if it has taken place, and whether or not it has taken place, 
we make it possible to simply evaluate the online behavior (if that 
is part of an application using HumanML) against standards that are 
as much as we can possibly make them, unbiased  culturally or in any 
other sense we can reasonably avoid.

By doing that, we make it possible to achieve a greater degree of 
accuracy in evaluating communications and, ultimately, in formulating 
communications.

Gack! How pendantic can I possibly be. My apologies, it is too early 
in my morning to be short and succinct.

Ciao,
Rex

P.S. We have a spot warm for you if you wish to have your opinions 
count a bit more. But public comment is appreciated, so thanks.

At 11:22 PM -0500 11/26/02, Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga wrote:
>Hi Dennis,
>
>Specifically regarding your comments of race:  we are not attempting to
>hard-wire a definition of codelists such as "race", but to 1) codeify
>current codelists and 2) enable modularized codelists to be able to be
>created.
>
>That is the rationale behind the ontologically weak Primary Base Schema
>(to allow flexibility and modularity in higher levels).  I hope that
>addresses your concerns.
>
>Good to hear your insight.
>
>Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:01 PM
>To: humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
>Cc: William Anderson; rkthunga@humanmarkup.org
>Subject: Human Markup Language 1.0 considered harmful
>
>
>When I saw this announcement I thought at first that it was a put-on,
>joke, or spoof of some kind.  I really did.
>
>I gather that the Human Markup Language is not a joke.  I am very
>concerned. I blogged what I saw and what bothers me as well as I could
>at
>
>
>http://nfocentrale.net/orcmid/blog/2002_11_24_lair-chive.asp#85127383
>
>and I would love to have a way to make what I see as the error of this
>more clear.
>
>Also, I need to look at the charter for this work.  It is not clear to
>me exactly what the intended application of this is and why it has to be
>called "human" markup language.  Who does this appeal to?
>
>But, given the document at face value, I am concerned that the assertion
>of "nothing taken for granted" and self-assertion as a test of humanity
>are at best ingenuous.  My demonstration is the supposition of "race" as
>a physical characteristic.  And that it be describable (I hesitate to
>use the notion of description at all here) by a code.
>
>-- orcmid
>
>------------------
>Dennis E. Hamilton
>http://NuovoDoc.com/
>mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>tel. +1-206-932-6970
>cell +1-206-779-9430
>      The Miser Project: http://miser-theory.info/
>      AIIM DMware: http://DMware.info/
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: CIO Council XML Working Group (XMLWG)
>[mailto:XMLWG@LISTSERV.GSA.GOV]On Behalf Of Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga
>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 06:10
>To: XMLWG@LISTSERV.GSA.GOV
>Subject: [XMLWG] HumanMarkup - Primary Base Specification 1.0 available
>for Public Comments
>
>
>To XML WG members:
>
>I am posting the following announcement, originally posted by Karl Best
>of OASIS, regarding the availability of the HumanMarkup Primary Base
>Schema 1.0 for public comments.  All persons are very much encouraged to
>provide feedback on the specifications during this time period...details
>below.
>
>-----
>Ranjeeth Kumar Thunga
>OASIS HumanMarkup TC - Chair
>(917) 494-1684 (m)
>rkthunga@humanmarkup.org
>
>------
>
>[ ... ]
>
>Comments are welcome and encouraged from all interested parties.
>Comments should be submitted to the humanmarkup comment list at
>humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org.
>
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>
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-- 
Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com