RE: [huml-comment] PC-33 -Section 4.4.6-race: Use Cases

["Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>]

Again, below ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 09:46
To: dennis.hamilton@acm.org; humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: Rex Brooks
Subject: RE: [huml-comment] PC-33 -Section 4.4.6-race


At 8:46 AM -0800 11/29/02, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
[ ... ]

><ORCNOTE You said something here about wanting to honor how people describe
>themselves (or are described).  That sounds like a perfectly
straightforward
>thing to do.  Is that indeed the subject matter to be embraced by Human ML?

That's what I'm trying to do.

>That's not how it is presented.  Maybe the problem is that the scope and
>reach is stated too broadly for something that is actually relatively
>straightforward when the markup is made more situated.  I think that
>otherwise you are trying to serve too many masters, and too many agendas,
>and it will diminish the accomplishment.  I would start by coming up with a
>better term than Human Markup Language.  Also, the race term is simply a
>dramatic example.  Hair color is enough of a problem, but it is more
>difficult to recognize.  Height and weight are also difficult.  Think about
>it.  When and where and determined by whom?  There's a big difference
>between a witness's description taken in a police report and a measurement
>at the pediatricians!  By the way, are you going to tolerate non-English
>descriptive terms? The Anglo centrism is pretty pronounced. />

The anglo-centrism has been noted and admitted. I'm not going to make
myself crazy about it by trying to be something other than what I am.

<ORCNOTE> I don't understand. I am not concerned whether or not you are
Anglo centric!  I'm Anglo centered too.  I was looking at the intended scope
of application and is it intended to be usable cross-culturally, etc.  Is
there a process to have the perspectives of other cultures and subcultures
be reflected and be accommodated and distinguished somehow? I think in
conflict resolution, say between the worldview of a simulated policeman and
of a simulated perp, this would be enlightening.  Or of someone pursuing a
complaint of profiling, just to pick a hot topic.</ORCNOTE>

[ ... ] we have
adopted a process of developing the language in incremental modular
fashion, based on a Primary Base which will be enlarged through
extension and restriction in xml schema terms in a Secondary Base
which will then spawn more application-centric modules. As more base
terms are iidentified as needing to be added, or our current ones
show a need for amending, we are committed to doing that, which is
part of the next round of work on the Requirements Document. We are
also working on a parallel structure in RDF as well to connect up the
resources so that application authors will have an expandable toolkit
for making HumanML apps.

<ORCNOTE> So is HML Specification 1.0 (The Primary Base and the Secondary
Base) actually not to be usable by itself?  Hmm, I need to understand the
application of this, how namespaces will work, and so on.  </ORCNOTE>

><ORCNOTE Real world example.  My niece is a single mother (presently
engaged
>to be married -- are you guys going to embrace kinship relationships?  I
>forgot to look) and on the usual questionnaires, such as the one for the
>just-past US Census, she describes her son's race as OTHER and bi-racial.
>That's how she describes it.  That is not likely to be what a police
officer
>or a school official writes in a report, when referring to this same
>teen-ager.  It is what my grand-nephew says, as his mother has taught him.
>How does Human ML apply to this?  />

That is more the arena of application builders. If they need more
from us, we are committed to being ready and willing to do that. We
have a deliberately broad scope which is intended to be narrowed by
the use cases that develop. Trying to anticipate all uses would be
crazy-making, but being dedicated to encouraging scholars and authors
and software engineers from humanity's various cultures to write the
descriptions of their cultures and for individuals to describe
themselves is one of our guiding principles.

<ORCNOTE>  Oh my goodness.  I think you should look hard at saying what an
use case of unqualified HML 1.0 is.  I've always assumed that use cases are
not meant to be limiting, they are meant to establish the cover and reach.
Pick a stereotypical use case.  There's a couple in the paragraph you just
wrote.  I must say that the idea that uses cases come next has me completely
floored.  Do you mean only now as part of the Secondary Base work?  I assure
you, this already cries out for an use case. Please clarify.</ORCNOTE>

>Ciao,
>Rex
>
>
>--
I look forward to hearing more from you. I will respond as I can.

Ciao,
Rex
--
Rex Brooks
Starbourne Communications Design
1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA 94702 *510-849-2309
http://www.starbourne.com * rexb@starbourne.com