OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

chairs message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: Re: [chairs] SPAM


Karl:

It sounds like DRRW is signing up to write the code for you :-)

Problem solved.

-Matt

On Apr 13, 2004, at 12:27 PM, David RR Webber wrote:

> Karl,
>
> What I was thinking is dumping a simple XML file out with
> email address + sequence number - and reading that into
> memory as a part of the archive generator - and drive
> the search/replace that way.
>
> Simple thing to update that XML file when a member joins
> or changes email address by re-running that dump to
> the XML flatfile.
>
> DW.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
> To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
> Cc: "Eve L. Maler" <Eve.Maler@Sun.COM>; <chairs@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [chairs] SPAM
>
>
>> David:
>>
>> I like the idea. It would require a bit of extra processing for each
>> message to match the sender with the Kavi database. The big problem,
>> though, is that we don't have membership numbers; the "key" or unique
>> identifier in the database is the email address.
>>
>> But this might have some merit anyway. We'll think about what might be
>> possible.
>>
>> -Karl
>>
>>
>> David RR Webber wrote:
>>> Karl,
>>>
>>> Replacing the address with the OASIS # satisfies your
>>> requirement.  It's basically impossible since there is
>>> no correlation.
>>>
>>> The only way back is if you have the OASIS membership
>>> / number xref list.
>>>
>>> My guess is you could setup a simple Java program or
>>> XSLT script to do this replacement stripping...
>>>
>>> DW.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Karl F. Best" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>
>>> To: "Eve L. Maler" <Eve.Maler@Sun.COM>
>>> Cc: <chairs@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [chairs] SPAM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah, we thought about something like that, i.e. replacement of the
>>>> address with some sort of code. But in order to be effective it  
>>>> must be
>>>> costly (i.e. impossible for a machine, requires a human) to  
>>>> re-convert
>>>> large quantities of addresses, but simple for a human to re-convert  
>>>> a
>>>> single address.
>>>>
>>>> From the first Slashdot example, at least, it would be simple for a
>>>> human to look at the address and create a simple rule for how to
>>>> recreate the original.
>>>>
>>>> -Karl
>>>>
>>>> p.s. <chuckle> the rotating banner at the top of the Slashdot page  
>>>> when
>>>> I viewed it was an O'Reilly ad for a book on creating spiders and
>>>> bots... </>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eve L. Maler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why not just use a mechanistic, but variable, means of disguising  
>>>>> the
>>>>> email address the way Slashdot does?  An example appears here:
>>>>>
>>>>>  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=103884&cid=8848779
>>>>>
>>>>> The email link shows up as:
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>> mailto: 
>>>>> heironymouscoward%40yah%5B%20%5Dcom%20%5B'oo.'%20in%20gap%5D
>>>>>
>>>>> A human can decode this as necessary, but a machine has a much  
>>>>> tougher
>>>>> time.  Here's another:
>>>>>
>>>>>  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=103883&cid=8848358
>>>>>
>>>>> The email link shows up as:
>>>>>
>>>>>  mailto:dgorman%40nosPaM.arete.cc
>>>>>
>>>>> Etc.  I believe the engine behind Slashdot is open-source, so maybe
> that
>>>>> (or part of it, anyway) can be used.  Though I wonder about its
>>>>> effectiveness if a spammer can locate all the disguise techniques  
>>>>> in a
>>>>> file somewhere...
>>>>>
>>>>>    Eve
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl F. Best wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chairs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll open another can of worms and jump into this :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Duane, that this is a problem.  
>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>> bet that I get more spam than you do (few hundred a day). And I  
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> no doubt that all this is because of spammers harvesting addresses
>>>>>> from our list archives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course a knee-jerk reaction would be to close off the archives  
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> that nobody can get to them, but given that the OASIS philosophy  
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> openness and accountability we need to keep things open and
> accessible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There seems to be two possible solutions: either disguise the
>>>>>> addresses stored in the archives, or to somehow block access so  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> only a human can get through. (I don't think that we want to go  
>>>>>> down
>>>>>> the path of an offensive strategy such as what Duane suggests.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lacking a foolproof Turing test to allow only human access to the
>>>>>> archives, I think the best and easiest solution will probably be  
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> disguise the email addresses attached to each message so that  
>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>> is harvested in unusable by spammers. The disguise would have to  
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> such that the harvester would not be able to accurately or easily
>>>>>> recreate the address. Obviously substituting the word "at" for  
>>>>>> the @
>>>>>> sign isn't going to fool anybody for very long. But whatever we  
>>>>>> do may
>>>>>> not disguise the actual identity of the sender; we need to know  
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> sent the message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A final question is whether it is necessary for a person to be  
>>>>>> able to
>>>>>> respond to a message he found in the archives; i.e. does the guy  
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the street need to be able to figure out how to respond to Duane  
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> he reads something thet Duane wrote? Perhaps this requirement is  
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> so important, as TC members already know how to respond to the TC
>>>>>> list, and the guy on the street is already given instructions for
>>>>>> sending a comment to the TC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the above is acceptable then perhaps I could suggest (and  
>>>>>> please
>>>>>> note, this is just a strawman for discussion, not an official  
>>>>>> OASIS
>>>>>> proposal) that we delete some portion of the address after the @  
>>>>>> sign.
>>>>>> We could delete all of it, leaving just "duane@", for example, but
>>>>>> then we loose any idea about what company Duane was at, whether  
>>>>>> Yellow
>>>>>> Dragon or Adobe (and it may be important for IPR reasons to  
>>>>>> know). So
>>>>>> maybe we could leave the first couple of characters after the @  
>>>>>> sign,
>>>>>> resulting in "duane@ye" or "duane@ad". If we left three characters
>>>>>> then we'd get "sun" and "ibm" etc. which would make it possible to
>>>>>> reconstruct the address. But then again with only two we would get
>>>>>
>>> "hp".
>>>
>>>>>> So, any comments on whether it should be a requirement for a  
>>>>>> human to
>>>>>> still be able to figure out the email address? And, if that's not  
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> requirement, what do you think of my above suggestion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.s. Duane, I hope you don't mind me using you as the example :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> =================================================================
>>>> Karl F. Best
>>>> Vice President, OASIS
>>>> office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
>>>> karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> =================================================================
>> Karl F. Best
>> Vice President, OASIS
>> office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
>> karl.best@oasis-open.org      http://www.oasis-open.org
>>
>>
>
>
___________________________
Matthew MacKenzie
Senior Architect
IDBU Server Solutions
Adobe Systems Canada Inc.
http://www.adobe.com/products/server/
mattm@adobe.com
+1 (506) 871.5409


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]