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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

That would be the list, thanks David.
Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to encompass 
the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other WS* specs, thereby 
moving towards convergence. A curious point is that we don't see that 
kind of outreach yet from the other side....


David Webber (XML) wrote:
> Joe,
> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated
> architecture that documents the new capabilities that all this
> enables.
> Thanks, DW
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>; "Duane
> Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>;
> <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>;
> <psnack@aiag.org>; <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; <ronschuldt@msn.com>;
> <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" <johnc@mbproject.org>;
> <mjyader@comcast.net>; <tdean@criticaltech.net>;
> <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "James Bryce Clark"
> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> <Quote>
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is closing
> that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> </Quote>
> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> Thanks,
> Joe
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
>>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
>>golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net;
>>tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like
>>to enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities
>>or just for ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale
>>asked me about addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
>>conversation with Jamie the other night, and got some
>>direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much
>>like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two
>>groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next
>>Wed if allowed.
>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with
>>the work from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a
>>facilitator towards interoperability among the upcoming
>>business process frameworks (WS*, ebXML and SemWeb are three
>>that are working to gain dominance). The request-response
>>model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently mapping
>>well onto the true complexity that large industries have
>>developed in their shared business processes. For example, no
>>one will argue today that inventory visibility for the
>>automotive industry is a request-response model between two
>>partners. Healthcare is another area that is very complex,
>>and requires multiple interactions between large numbers of
>>process participants to complete the information exchange,
>>with forks and decisions during the execution.
>>The other reality is that process participants require
>>constant realtime feeds of information from many points in
>>the process, which are owned and offered by various companies
>>of various sizes and IT capabilities.
>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
>>operating framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
>>causation techniques and other things like shared industry
>>process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3
>>is closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real
>>world use cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS
>>and shine a light on successful implementations
>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
>>agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent
>>stuff is the long-term target)
>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
>>consistent direction towards convergence
>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
>>verge of a major break in what I think is so far a
>>stagnation. The potential of the internet is clear - and
>>everyone is aware that it's potential is more than just human
>>readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been
>>preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
>>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
>>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging
>>between partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn
>>out mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
>>entire movement)
>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of
>>these problems. I would like to help by completing the
>>patterns and the catalog of patterns, and publish the use
>>cases to describe it. There also needs to be a major outreach
>>effort to all industry groups that are building shared
>>business processes (which by the way, look much more complex
>>than simple request-response models).
>>That's it, I guess....
>>Monica J. Martin wrote:
>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
>>MacKenzie was
>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
>>could provide
>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update on ebSOA
>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
>>ebSOA would
>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for ebXML. Your
>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>john c hardin
>>313.930.5323 cell
>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
>>the image of a global village."
>>     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962

john c hardin
313.930.5323 cell

"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of 
a global village."

     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962

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