We are close to finishing our final public review on the use case
document before we go for voting for Committee Note. While we need
to continue this dialog to amicably understand the roadblocks, Tony
has in contributing this document to ITU, I have personally
confirmed with Tony (here at EIC, Munich) that Tony *does not* see
any need to immediately block the potential CN voting.
I just want to assure the TC that we will go for CN voting once the
PR has ended and do not experience a need for substantial changes
(via comments), at the next TC meeting.
On 04/18/2012 09:02 AM, Matt Rutkowski wrote:
Abbie, Tony, Chet,
Jamie, et al.,
I am not sure why we would take a
non
normative document (which we established to the point of ad
nauseum) such
as the ID Cloud TC Use Case document and attempt to declare it a
specification.
It was pointed out to me early on that this document was
exactly
the type of material OASIS had intended to be labelled a Comm.
Note Draft
(CND). I still do not understand that if the CND is published
as
a public document and proper attribution is provided why it
cannot be reviewed
and referenced by another SDO. It sounds like the issue is more
on
the ITU side and their rules since Jamie clearly stated (below):
>> Obviously, there should be no
problem
in encouraging ITU experts to
>> review the TC's work. It also should not be a
problem if
ITU produces
>> inventories of use cases that include and
cross-cite to the ID-Cloud
TC use cases.
>>
>> We do need to make sure that both OASIS and ITU rules
for intellectual
>> property are honored.
In good conscience, I would not
support
taking the use case document and declaring it a "specification"
(when it clearly is not one) simply to have it placed into some
legal category
which I am not convinced is necessary.
Do we have an official legal
statement
from ITU to provide to Jamie that lists the exact issues they
are encountering
such that they specifically believe they are encountering? I am
fully
intending to reference the IDCloud use case document as a CND
(with proper
attribution) at other SDOs and do not believe in those other
venues we
would encounter these concerns.
Kind regards,
Matt
PS adding Dave Ings
From:
Chet Ensign
<chet.ensign@oasis-open.org>
To:
"Barbir, Abbie"
<abbie.barbir@bankofamerica.com>
Cc:
Anthony Nadalin
<tonynad@microsoft.com>,
Jamie Clark <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>,
"id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org"
<id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org>,
"anil.saldhana@redhat.com"
<anil.saldhana@redhat.com>, "Euchner, Martin"
<martin.euchner@itu.int>,
"Jamoussi, Bilel" <bilel.jamoussi@itu.int>
Date:
04/17/2012 03:20 PM
Subject:
Re: [id-cloud]
RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
Sent by:
<id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org>
Hi Abbie -
It is full majority vote, more than 50% of the voting members.
/chet
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Barbir, Abbie
<abbie.barbir@bankofamerica.com> wrote:
> Chet
> What kind of a TC vote is needed
> A majority vote ?
> regards
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chet Ensign [mailto:chet.ensign@oasis-open.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:21 PM
> To: Anthony Nadalin
> Cc: Barbir, Abbie; Jamie Clark;
id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org; anil.saldhana@redhat.com;
Euchner, Martin; Jamoussi, Bilel
> Subject: Re: [id-cloud] RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>
> From the TC Process point of view, a TC can vote to
change a Committee
Note Draft to a Committee Specification Draft if it makes
sense as such
a document. The way to do that would be:
>
> - Request a CSD template from TC Admin at http://www.oasis-open.org/resources/tc-admin-requests/work-product-registration-template-request
> - among other things, we'll create the OASIS Library URIs
as part
of the template
>
> - Put the note content into the template, make any other
changes or
updates you want, and load it to Kavi
>
> - Have the TC vote to approve the working draft at that
Kavi URL as
a CSD
>
> - Request that TC Admin create & load the CSD
>
> It would of course have to go out for another round of
public review
before it could be approved as a Committee Specification.
>
> /chet
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Anthony Nadalin
<tonynad@microsoft.com>
wrote:
>> Taking note does note allow usage. SG13 is doing the
use cases.
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>> ________________________________
>> From: Barbir, Abbie
>>
>> Sent: 4/17/2012 8:43 PM
>> To: Anthony Nadalin; Jamie Clark;
id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com; Euchner,
>> Martin; Jamoussi, Bilel
>>
>> Subject: [id-cloud] RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> Where did you get the decision that we need this to
happen. Who
did
>> ask about it from the ITU side?
>>
>> We always send an LS with a reference to the OASIS
work and asked
the
>> receiving SDO to take note of our work.
>>
>> We have had great examples of great work with the ITU
without
imposing
>> extra rules and regulation on the OASIS side or the
ITU side.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition, I do not think the TC can change OASIS
IPR rules.
>>
>> Jamie, can the TC change the IPR rules on its Notes?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Abbie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Anthony Nadalin [mailto:tonynad@microsoft.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 2:29 PM
>> To: Barbir, Abbie; Jamie Clark;
id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com
>> Subject: RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>>
>>
>> IPR would change
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Barbir, Abbie
>> Sent: 4/17/2012 8:26 PM
>> To: Anthony Nadalin; Jamie Clark;
id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com
>> Subject: RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> Make use cases a standard? Why?
>>
>>
>>
>> Making them a standard what would it change?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> From: id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> [mailto:id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org]
>> On Behalf Of Anthony Nadalin
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 2:22 PM
>> To: Barbir, Abbie; Jamie Clark;
id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com
>> Subject: [id-cloud] RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>>
>>
>> Abbie, Jamie quoted OASIS policy and as it states
other SDO really
>> can't use the the OASIS notes they can be aware of
them.
>>
>> So we can elect to make them a standard or ask that
TC be allowed
to
>> change the IPR on OASIS notes.
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Barbir, Abbie
>> Sent: 4/17/2012 5:43 PM
>> To: Anthony Nadalin; Jamie Clark;
id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com
>> Subject: RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I do agree with Jamie's analysis.
>>
>> We have had (and continue to have) excellent
collaboration with
ITU-T
>> using LS statements that exchanged documents and kept
parties
aware of
>> what each SDO is doing. ITU-T can reference the cloud
TC material
if
>> it needs to and then progress its work. The work item
that was
started
>> at the ITU-T under
>> Q10/17 ( and then sent to Q8/17) did not assume that
it needs
direct
>> access to the OASIS work, but it was intended to
reference it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Abbie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> [mailto:id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org]
>> On Behalf Of Anthony Nadalin
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:11 AM
>> To: Jamie Clark; id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com
>> Subject: [id-cloud] RE: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>>
>>
>> So this does not seem to be the best outcome, as this
requires
other
>> SDO to accept the fact that they have to rework the
document enough
to
>> avoid the IRP issues, seems like more work than most
SDOs will
accept,
>> so it seems that this is not keeping with the intent
of the charter.
>> Maybe this is something that can be revisited on a TC
basis.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Jamie Clark [mailto:jamie.clark@oasis-open.org]
>> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 1:28 PM
>> To: id-cloud@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Cc: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org;
anil.saldhana@redhat.com; Anthony
>> Nadalin
>> Subject: ID-Cloud material to ITU
>>
>>
>>
>> Some members asked whether a particular Committee
Note Draft from
our
>> ID-Cloud TC** can be shared with ITU-T's Study Groups
13 and 17.
The
>> ITU planning group for this work meets shortly; some
OASIS members
who
>> work in both groups would like confirmation that the
OASIS TC
material
>> also may be reviewed in their ITU work.
>>
>> ** Cloud Use Cases Version 1.0, Committee Note Draft
01 dated
27 June
>> 2011
>> (CND01)
>> (http://docs.oasis-open.org/id-cloud/IDCloud-usecases/v1.0/cnd01/IDClo
>> ud-usecases-v1.0-cnd01.pdf)
>>
>> Obviously, there should be no problem in encouraging
ITU experts
to
>> review the TC's work. It also should not be a
problem if
ITU produces
>> inventories of use cases that include and cross-cite
to the ID-Cloud
TC use cases.
>>
>> We do need to make sure that both OASIS and ITU rules
for intellectual
>> property are honored. Both sets of rules exist to
make sure
that our
>> communities can develop and publish with clear
understandings
about
>> various rights and claims that may arise in it.
Comments from
the TC
>> members are
>> welcome: Here's what we are doing.
>>
>> We're bound by the OASIS IPR Policy. So we can
freely permit
and
>> welcome ITU review of, and making any normative or
nonnormative
>> references they choose to, the TC's work. However,
as a
"Committee
>> Note" or "Committee Note Draft", the TC's work
will not carry any
>> licensing assurances under our IPR Policy, and is not
eligible
for
>> "submission" to ITU for purposes of being approved
elsewhere.
This is
>> because the committee elected to use a class of work
that is excluded
from our Liaison Policy on submissions.
>>
>> The most important purpose of the ID-Cloud TC, and
its value to
the
>> community (from my perspective), has been to identify
and share
>> information on use cases where cloud standards are
needed. So
it
>> would be pretty silly to discourage this plan. We
have a
>> long-standing and positive cooperation with ITU, and
we're happy
to
>> see them thinking about the cloud standards issues
raised by your
TC's report.
>>
>> The TC also has an interest in being sure that its
work is used
in its
>> final form, and that drafts are not misrepresented as
complete.
We
>> noted that the TC repository contains an apparently
updated version
>> (CNPRD02) at http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/45609/IDCloud-usecases-v1.0-cnprd02.zip.
>> So that's what we will advise the ITU panel to
reference.
>>
>> ITU-T has its own rules as well. I'm not sure what
their
own rules
>> would imply about work that is re-printed, versus
referenced by
URL.
>> (Bear in mind that, at OASIS, one can post any link
to a document
to any TC list ...
>> but if the written work itself is appended to the
list as an
>> attachment, that act is taken to be a contribution
with licensing
>> consequences.) So we'll rely on their staff to get
that
right,
>>
>> Obviously, as OASIS, we also selfishly hope to see
some of the
use
>> case work (which is identified as future needed
standardization)
occur within OASIS.
>> Something for us to discuss further with the TC and
its
members.
>>
>> We'll confirm to the ITU-T secretariat that we have
no objection
to
>> members pointing ITU to OASIS TC work generally --
after all,
it's in
>> an open repository. We'll reference the current
draft (CNPRD02),
and
>> essentially give them reprint permission. We do that
routinely
in
>> other appropriate instances as well. That will
include the
right to
>> take the OASIS TC use case summary material, along
with a link
to the
>> OASIS source, and include it in their own roll-up
tables of
>> inventories of proposed use cases from multiple
organizations.
>>
>> We will caution the Secretariat, in our note, that no
license
rights
>> beyond that are or can be explicitly granted, as we
hold no rights
>> from our members to convey more, for artifacts of
this class (CN).
>> (Also, by pointing to the OASIS URL, a reader will
land on our
>> document, which contains its own appropriate warnings
about what
>> rights are and aren't assured, and how final a draft
is or isn't.)
>> It's our understanding that any derivations or
changes that ITU
wishes
>> to make from such material, beyond the summary
lists/reprints,
>> necessarily would done under their own intellectual
property practices,
not under any sort of license or permission from OASIS.
>>
>> Regards Jamie
>>
>> James Bryce Clark, General Counsel
>> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information
society
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#clark
>>
>> www.identi.ca/JamieXML
>> www.twitter.com/JamieXML
>> http://t.sina.cn/jamiexml
>> http://www.slideshare.net/jamiexml
>> http://facebook.com/oasis.open
>>
>> ________________________________
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>
>
> --
>
> /chet
> ----------------
> Chet Ensign
> Director of Standards Development and TC Administration
> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information
society http://www.oasis-open.org
>
> Primary: +1 973-996-2298
> Mobile: +1 201-341-1393
>
> Follow OASIS on:
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>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an
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> The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may
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By messaging with Sender you consent to the foregoing.
--
/chet
----------------
Chet Ensign
Director of Standards Development and TC Administration
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
http://www.oasis-open.org
Primary: +1 973-996-2298
Mobile: +1 201-341-1393
Follow OASIS on:
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