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Subject: [sca-bpel] Raw chat text of 2008-05-08 telcon


anonymous morphed into Najeeb Andrabi
Najeeb Andrabi: 
SCA-BPEL Weekly meeting has been modified by Dr. Anish Karmarkar
 
Date:  Thursday, 08 May 2008
Time:  08:00am - 09:00am PT
 
Event Description:
Dial-in:
1-888-967-2253
+1-650-607-2253
+61-2-8817-6100
+44-118-924-9000
 
Meeting ID: 877770
Meeting password: SCABPEL (7222735)
 
Web-conf: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/sca-bpel-TC
 
Acrobat connect room URL: http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/scabpel/
 
Agenda:
1. Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php
 
2. Appointment of scribe
Scribe list attached below
 
3. Agenda bashing
 
4. Approval of may 1, 2008 minutes
 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00004.html
 
5. Action items review
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php
 
a) AI #0021
Chairs - to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository
b) AI #0035 (Due date 5/
Dieter - Create a proposal for Issue 16 - Ambiguous Service Resolution
c) AI #0037
Anish - update the assembly RDDL file, file names and the references in the spec
 
6. New Issues
 
NONE
 
7. Status of JIRA
Update from issues editor
 
8. Issue Discussion
 
a) Issue 21 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-21
Given the resolution of issue 14, can we close this?
 
b) Issue 20 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-20
SCA-BPEL spec can not require bpel:mustUnderstand to be true (proposal in JIRA)
 
c) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
TITLE- Define Conformance Targets
SUBMITTED BY- Martin Chapman
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00000.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00014.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00048.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00001.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00021.html
Review of section 2.1 from CD-01-rev3 at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00026.html
 
d) Issue 18 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-18
TITLE- Need to rewrite the SCA-BPEL specifications with RFC-2119 keywords/statements SUBMITTED BY- KHANDERAO KAND
 
e) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16
TITLE- Ambigous Service Resolution
SUBMITTED BY- Dieter Koenig
 
 
9. AOB
 
-----------------------------------------
Rotating scribe list:
* Moser, Mr Simon; IBM (11/15/07)
* van der Rijn, Danny; TIBCO Software Inc. (12/06/07)
* Trickovic, Mrs Ivana; SAP AG (1/27/08, 4/17/0
* Chapman, Dr Martin; Oracle Corporation (9/7/07, 12/13/07, 2/28/0
* Andrabi, Mr. Najeeb; TIBCO Software Inc. (10/4/07, 2/14/08, 3/27/0
* Kand, Khanderao; Oracle Corporation (9/20/07, 1/31/08, 4/10/0
* Koenig, Mr Dieter; IBM (10/25/07, 1/10/08, 3/13/08, 4/24/0
* Rowley, Mr Michael; BEA Systems, Inc. (9/27/07, 2/7/0
* Malhotra, Mr Ashok; Oracle Corporation (11/29/07, 2/21/08, 5/1/
 
 
Minutes:
 
 
This event is one in a list of recurring events.
Other event dates in this series:
 
Thursday, 27 September 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 04 October 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 11 October 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 18 October 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 25 October 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 01 November 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 08 November 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 15 November 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 22 November 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 29 November 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 06 December 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 13 December 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 20 December 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 27 December 2007, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 03 January 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 10 January 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 17 January 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 24 January 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 31 January 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 07 February 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 14 February 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 21 February 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 28 February 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 06 March 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 13 March 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 20 March 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 27 March 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 03 April 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 10 April 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 17 April 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 24 April 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 15 May 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 22 May 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 29 May 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 05 June 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 12 June 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 19 June 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 26 June 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 03 July 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 10 July 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 17 July 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 24 July 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 31 July 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 07 August 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 14 August 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 21 August 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 28 August 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 04 September 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 11 September 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 18 September 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT Thursday, 25 September 2008, 08:00am to 09:00am PT
 
View event details:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/event.php?event_id=16253
 
PLEASE NOTE:  If the above link does not work for you, your email application may be breaking the link into two pieces.  You may be able to copy and paste the entire link address into the address field of your web browser.
Sanjay: Agenda:
Sanjay: Agenda:
1. Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php
 
2. Appointment of scribe
Scribe list attached below
 
3. Agenda bashing
 
4. Approval of may 1, 2008 minutes
 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00004.html
 
5. Action items review
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php
 
a) AI #0021
Chairs - to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository
b) AI #0035 (Due date 5/
Dieter - Create a proposal for Issue 16 - Ambiguous Service Resolution
c) AI #0037
Anish - update the assembly RDDL file, file names and the references in the spec
 
6. New Issues
 
NONE
 
7. Status of JIRA
Update from issues editor
 
8. Issue Discussion
 
a) Issue 21 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-21
Given the resolution of issue 14, can we close this?
 
b) Issue 20 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-20
SCA-BPEL spec can not require bpel:mustUnderstand to be true
(proposal in JIRA)
 
c) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
TITLE- Define Conformance Targets
SUBMITTED BY- Martin Chapman
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00000.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00014.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00048.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00001.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00021.html
Review of section 2.1 from CD-01-rev3 at
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00026.html
 
d) Issue 18 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-18
TITLE- Need to rewrite the SCA-BPEL specifications with RFC-2119
keywords/statements
SUBMITTED BY- KHANDERAO KAND
 
e) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16
TITLE- Ambigous Service Resolution
SUBMITTED BY- Dieter Koenig
 
 
9. AOB
anonymous morphed into anish
Najeeb Andrabi: Agenda approved
Najeeb Andrabi: May 1st minutes approved.
Najeeb Andrabi: Action Item review
anish: minutes http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00004.html
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: suggesting changing minutes in-order to stike word possible in May 1st minutes
Najeeb Andrabi: strike
Najeeb Andrabi: May 1st minutes approved with change above
Najeeb Andrabi: Action item review
Najeeb Andrabi: AI #0021
Chairs - to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository
Najeeb Andrabi: remains pending
Najeeb Andrabi: Dieter: If anyone else can volunteer for creating the proposal
Najeeb Andrabi: Danny: suggested to close the action item with no action
Najeeb Andrabi: Dieter: Can produce a proposal for AI# 0021 May 29th
Najeeb Andrabi: AI #0037 remains pending - RDDL files needs to be uploaded.
Najeeb Andrabi: New issues discussion
Najeeb Andrabi: no new issues
Najeeb Andrabi: Issue discussion
Najeeb Andrabi: Issue #21
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: We have decided that we would put all attributes in the same namespace
anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-21
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: Opened Issue 21 to be separate from Issue 14.
Sanjay: m: close BPEL-21 with no action and add a comment to reference BPEL-20
Najeeb Andrabi: Sanjay: Moves to close issue 21 with no action with reference to Issue 20
Najeeb Andrabi: Dieter seconds
Najeeb Andrabi: Motion passes
Najeeb Andrabi: Issue #21 resolved
Najeeb Andrabi: Issue 20 discussion
anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-20
Najeeb Andrabi: Danny: Issue 20 proposal is not complete.
Najeeb Andrabi: Danny: mustUnderstand is reflection of actual BPEL process: whether BPEL process can run that construct
Najeeb Andrabi: Danny: two use cases
Najeeb Andrabi: if mustUnderstand = true then process cannot run if the BPEL processor cannot understand the attribute
Najeeb Andrabi: If mustUnderstand = false the process will run with potential of runing an invalid process
Najeeb Andrabi: Danny: we should not make mustUnderstand = true but make it flexible so that BPEL process does not have to understand.
Najeeb Andrabi: Dieter: if BPEL variables as sca properties are not understood they will not be intialized
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: Agrees with Danny, the must understand attributes must be left to the authors of BPEL process
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: update the proposal to reflect when to set mustUnderstand = true/false
Najeeb Andrabi: Danny: It is would nice to update the proposal but it is already well defined in BPEL specifications.
Najeeb Andrabi: specification
anish: we have the following attributes: multiref, property, service, reference and intent in our NS
Danny: and there was silence...
Sanjay: sounds like we need a proposal
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: go over each BPEL sca extension attributes so that we can figure out whether they are required or not
Najeeb Andrabi: Anish: multiref reference is required attribute as it can define a value 0..1 implying that it needs to be wired
anish: s/multiref reference is required/reference can be required, but may not be/
Najeeb Andrabi: Sanjay: Whether BPEL process understand is one way looking at it; other way looking at is to take into account the intent of the developer of the BPEL process.
Najeeb Andrabi1: Anish: mustUnderstand= true/false is more of guidance issue.
Najeeb Andrabi1: Sanjay: Introduce a short paragraph to explain that it depends on the context user is running BPEL process
Najeeb Andrabi1: Danny: mustUnderstand= true also restricts portability as BPEL process running in SCA context cannot be ported to non SCA environment without editing the BPEL file and changing mustUnderstand = false.
Najeeb Andrabi1: Anish: Providing some guidance for mustUnderstand attribute would be useful.
Mike Edwards: I think we are making far too much of this issue
Najeeb Andrabi1: Mike Edwards: we should not require mustUnderstand = true.
Najeeb Andrabi1: Anish: Danny to craft a proposal to resolve this issue
Najeeb Andrabi1: Danny moves to accept this proposal that is in JIRA
Najeeb Andrabi1: Sanjay seconds
Najeeb Andrabi1: Anish: take an AI to amend the proposal

 



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