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Subject: Re: [tm-pubsubj-comment] Fwd : On "prohibition" of XTM and URNs

Lars Marius Garshol wrote:

> (This probably sounds a bit terse. Apologies for that in advance; I
> was writing in a hurry.)
> * Murray Altheim
> | 
> |    <topicMap xmlns="http://www.topicmaps.org/xtm/1.0";
> |              xml:base="http://www.altheim.com/ceryle/psi/";>
> |       <topic id="tnode">
> |          <subjectIdentity>
> |            <subjectIndicatorRef xlink:href="urn:ceryle:graph:tnode"/>
> Just a small nit: URN schemes which are not registered should have
> names beginning with 'x-'. I'm guessing that yours is not
> registered. :)

That's only if one accepts the dictates of authority. :-) I look
around me on the web and see most don't follow x-, simply because
those In Control have made it neigh impossible to register URN
schemes. While at Sun we had a hell of time getting "urn:sun"
(or Bill Smith with "urn:oasis", if I remember correctly).

> | Consider the communities who potentially might publish PSI sets:
> | medicine, real estate, publishing, biology, law, etc. None of them
> | likely to have much care for arcane syntaxes. KISS here.
> Exactly, hence in part our preference for making the indicators
> themselves HTML with optional metadata in XTM/RDF.

or XHTML. I guess we're thinking alike. I wrote an RDF extractor
for my purple-link tool 'plink' for this purpose, though I think
that's now on the permanent backburner.

> | I realize I have a completely different set of priorities than some,
> | but if the topic map community doesn't have PSI publishing ability
> | soon, there simply will never be the public sharing of topic maps
> | within a reasonable amount of time, and people may move on to
> | something else given no standards for participating.
> Don't worry so much, Murray. We're getting there. There will be good
> examples to look at very soon.

Looking forward to that.

> | I'd just like a PSI for "topic documentation." 
> Make a web page that describes the subject and you're there.

No, I want *everyone* that publishes XTM-based PSI sets to use
the same PSI, how else can we write tools to locate the author's
documentation? I can't use "http://www.altheim.com/psi/documentation";
and expect to be able to share my topic maps with any idea that
tools will locate the documentation provided.

> | And a way to publish topic maps that I can point to as PSI sources.
> What do you mean by "point to" and "as PSI sources"?

Well, the countries and languages topic maps are "pointable"
resources. Apparently they're "wrong," syntactically. I want to
know how to do it right.

> | [...] such that a simple scraper could pull the actual PSI
> | definitions from the web page.
> What is it you need to extract from the page? The users don't need
> anything except the URIs (which they themselves must enter in any
> case), so what is it that automated extraction will bring us?

A web page is full of potential URIs-as-PSIs. There needs to be
a simple way of designating which IDs on the page are those URIs,

    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";
      <p psi:id="foo">PSI documentation</p>

or even

      <a id="foo" psi:id="foo">link text</a>

noting that 'id' and 'psi:id' don't *necessarily* have to agree.
This would create the PSI (and tools to extract this would be


The tool would take any valid XHTML web page and extract the list
of published PSIs established by that web page, probably in a form
as per my last message, or maybe just a plaintext version as a list.

> | I'd certainly add that component to Ceryle if the syntax was
> | standardized (ie., an "augmented-XHTML" to XTM tool).
> Not a bad idea. We should consider something like that, methinks.
> | I'm glad to see this is the case. I use URNs internal to Ceryle, and
> | I'd hate to think I was breaking a rule there.
> I think you are. You conform to the standard, but the published
> subjects recommendation requires there to actually be a descriptive
> resource to which the identifier must resolve. I doubt that's the case
> with these subject identifiers. Or am I wrong?

Well, there isn't currently published an XTM document because I'm
not sure what form the TC would want it to take. There *will* be
API documentation (for developers) delivered with Ceryle that will
document the URNs used. I sharing that information today with one
of my advisors so that we can collaborate on sharing GXL files
that use those URNs. Ie., I'm publishing amongst my colleagues,
the "descriptive resource" today will be a discussion between he
and I, eventuallly leading to its inclusion in Ceryle's developer
(not user) documentation.


Murray Altheim                  <http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/murray/>
Knowledge Media Institute
The Open University, Milton Keynes, Bucks, MK7 6AA, UK

      If it wants to be a global power and a player in the
      Atlantic alliance, Europe has to get back into the
      business of making war. -- Newsweek Magazine, June 3, 2002

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