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Subject: [Fwd: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes: 21 Jan 03, NDRSC teleconference]

  Hi Tim,

I think it was #2 at the end under 'New Business' where it was noted
that the change would impact the model and instances.  You may have
already dealt with this through response to Mike's email, though.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes: 21 Jan 03, NDRSC teleconference
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:20:49 -0600
From: "Lisa-Aeon" <lseaburg@aeon-llc.com>
Reply-To: "Lisa-Aeon" <lseaburg@aeon-llc.com>
Organization: Aeon Consulting
To: "UBL-NDR" <ubl-ndrsc@lists.oasis-open.org>

Attended:  Mavis Cournane, Mark Crawford, Paul Thorpe, Sue Probert, Mike
Grimley, Anne Hendry, Lisa Seaburg, Marion Royal, Gunther Stuhec, Arofan
Gregory, Michael Dill.

Regrets:  Bill Burcham,

Overall UBL Schedule:

- We looked at the schedule, we do realize that we may have problems with
getting the NDR document published at the 23 Feb 2004 deadline.  Mostly the
problem is resources:  so, anyone who volunteered to write parts of the NDR
document, please get their sections to Mark, please try by the end of the

Newest Version "Draft M" will be available after Friday (Jan 23rd).

3.  NEW BUSINESS - RT and DT Schema Module Adjustment

ATG will not have a RT schema module, but they will have the DT schema
module.  Core DT simply being the base datatypes without.  Some restrictions
for unqualified identifiers will be done.

MD:  There is more emails, we have redundancies in the schema.  Issue that
Michael has addressed to Tim.  Data Types issues,

MC:  If we get rid of RT module, create DT module, take the DT column in the
spreadsheet and assume that is the qualified Datatypes.  This will solve
some problems that Michael is having in outputting the schema.

We are also now using GEFEG tools to output the schema.  If we are making
any changes, then we would need to change the current NDR rules to go along
with them.  We believe these rules would improve the overall work enough to
make it worth while.

AH:  If we didn't do this and ATG went on and did this, how would we
characterize ATGs implementation in accordance to UBL.  In general there
implementation is not compliant.

We will end up with two different schema modules.  There are differences
between type vs. element management.  They are only going to have a ABIE
reusable schema module, no BBIE module.

They are also going to have either ASBIE or BBIE, in the content model of
the root element.

AH:  Up to now we have developed everything without implementation testing.
Now people are starting to work with this, rather than trying to force it
one way, we should maybe adjust to what reality is doing and what is

MC:  This gets rid of a level of complexity.  There is nothing in the CCTS
about basing it on the Representation Terms it has always been the Data

GS:  RT is part of the 11179 naming.

MC:  This puts our model closer to the CCTS and makes more sense.

GS:  We define out root element as a ABIE, including other ABIEs as ASBIEs.

MC:  The issue for NDR is do we accept this change and then what.

AH:  Does this become a rule, then maybe we should talk to the LCSC before
we make these changes.

MC: The person creating the schema would like this to happen.

GS:  We only change the name according to the CCTS,

MC:  I make a motion to Rename the current RT schema module to be
unqualified DT schema module, change all rules related to RT schema to
reflect that this is now the unqualified DT schema module and the
relationship between CCTS and RTs and that this is a direct one to one
relationship between the CCTs and these RTs.  And the DT schema module name
be changed to "Qualified DT schema module"  and it reflects restrictions to
unqualified DTs.

The intention here is to simplify the schema modularity and the mapping
between them and the extension of UBL by customizes.

MG:  Second,

No Objections - Approved.

4.  NEW BUSINESS - Identifiers

Proposal from Gunther:  create new schema module similar in nature to the
code list module, for identifiers.  We need a schema for the description for
all of the country identifiers.  Using the same rules for code lists we
should create similar rules for identifiers.

Gunther will create these rules and email them to this group.  He is saying
he wrote these rules already and we agreed these rules in Sept/Aug last
year.  That was the code list rules, now we will do the identifiers.

Action Item:  Gunther will rewrite the code list rules for Identifiers and
email to the group.

AH:  I suggest that the ATG information be shared with the whole UBL, not
just the NDR group.

MC:  Other than personal preferences that are driving some of the changes
between the UBL and ATG rules, the fundamental difference is management by
elements vs. management by types.

AH:  If anything in the rules is going to change that will change any of the
other sub committees work, please have these changes in before the end of
the month.  It will affect everyones deadlines.

LSCS - There was an action item for NDR to review the schema and there is a
sub-team.  Are there any issues and

1.  The ASBIEs in the schema did not have global elements declared, this
should just be fixed in the output of the schema.  Mark will talk to Michael
about this, if there is a problem with this, it has to be raised to the
appropriate SCs.

2.  Another issue is rule SSM7 about using the Object Class to differentiate
the ASBIEs from ABIEs they are based on.  Are we proposing to do this, the
CCTS does actually say to include this.  Our rules ask for minimal small
elements names, This means every ASBIE name will include the Object Class.
This will blow up the sizes of the instances.  If we say "only when needed"
it would be used to stop name collision.

The impact will be on the schema and the instances.  The model also gets

Is there another solution to this, the following list is for intent only.
Someone needs to talk to LCSC about this.

AI:  Sue and Lisa will talk to them about the naming in the model.  There is
no plan in LCSC to deal with this.

AI:  Mike Grimley to craft rule and send out to list.

MG:  I proposal that the Object Class be used to name the ASBIEs.

AG:  Seconded

All:  No objections - Approved for intent.

Any Other Business - None

Adjourned 12:10pm CST

Lisa Seaburg
AEON Consulting
Website: http://www.aeon-llc.com
Email:  lseaburg@aeon-llc.com
Alternative Email: xcblgeek@yahoo.com
Phone: 662-562-7676
Cellphone: 662-501-7676

"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun."
                       -Katharine Hepburn

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