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Subject: Re: [cti-stix] Re: [EXT] [cti-stix] Location, latitude/longitude, and precision


Sorry for the spam, but Section 3.4.3 of GeoURI is also instructive:

3.4.3.  Location Uncertainty

   The 'u' ("uncertainty") parameter indicates the amount of uncertainty

   in the location as a value in meters.  Where a 'geo' URI is used to

   identify the location of a particular object, <uval> indicates the

   uncertainty with which the identified location of the subject is

   known.

 

   The 'u' parameter is optional and it can appear only once.  If it is

   not specified, this indicates that uncertainty is unknown or

   unspecified.  If the intent is to indicate a specific point in space,

 

   <uval> MAY be set to zero.  Zero uncertainty and absent uncertainty

   are never the same thing.

 

   The single uncertainty value is applied to all dimensions given in

   the URI.

 

   Note: The number of digits of the values in <coordinates> MUST NOT be

   interpreted as an indication to the level of uncertainty.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870#page-8

 

So of the things we’ve talked about:

 

  • GeoJSON does not include uncertainty/precision
  • GeoURI does, and it’s optional with no default (or a default of “unspecified”)

 

I think it’s important to note though that our use case is different…we’re talking about location specifically for CTI. Given that specific domain space, where IP geolocation is very common and is typically precise to a city, I also feel like optional with a default of 10km makes the most sense. Optional with no default also seems very reasonable though.

 

John

 

From: <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of John Wunder <jwunder@mitre.org>
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:43 AM
To: "Struse, Richard J." <rjs@mitre.org>, Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
Cc: "Bret Jordan (CS)" <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>, "cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org>, Mark Davidson <Mark.Davidson@nc4.com>, Trey Darley <trey@newcontext.com>
Subject: Re: [cti-stix] Re: [EXT] [cti-stix] Location, latitude/longitude, and precision

 

Yeah I agree with Rich here, GeoJSON is far beyond a lat/lng with precision. In fact, looking through the GeoJSON specification, they don’t even include anything to indicate precision or uncertainty.

 

From: "Struse, Richard J." <rjs@mitre.org>
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:36 AM
To: Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
Cc: "Bret Jordan (CS)" <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>, "cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org>, John Wunder <jwunder@mitre.org>, Mark Davidson <Mark.Davidson@nc4.com>, Trey Darley <trey@newcontext.com>
Subject: Re: [cti-stix] Re: [EXT] [cti-stix] Location, latitude/longitude, and precision

 

In all fairness, GeoJSON is a big lift in terms of implementation complexity and isn’t really comparable to one additional precision property.

 

Given that, how would you respond to John’s original question regarding precision?

 

From: <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:32 AM
To: Richard Struse <rjs@mitre.org>
Cc: Bret Jordan <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>, "cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org>, "Wunder, John A." <jwunder@mitre.org>, Mark Davidson <Mark.Davidson@nc4.com>, Trey Darley <trey@newcontext.com>
Subject: Re: [cti-stix] Re: [EXT] [cti-stix] Location, latitude/longitude, and precision

 

As I stated a few days ago - if we are going to start including precision then I would rather we just go back to GeoJSON which is an existing RFC supported out of the box by many products.

Folks pressed to not use GeoJSON because they would not use all the features, and now we're talking about re-inventing things it already gives us.

-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown




From:        "Struse, Richard J." <rjs@mitre.org>
To:        Bret Jordan <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>, Trey Darley <trey@newcontext.com>
Cc:        "Wunder, John A." <jwunder@mitre.org>, Mark Davidson <Mark.Davidson@nc4.com>, "cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date:        07/19/2017 11:02 AM
Subject:        Re: [cti-stix] Re: [EXT] [cti-stix] Location, latitude/longitude, and precision
Sent by:        <cti-stix@lists.oasis-open.org>





Your opinion is noted. What do others on the list think?

On 7/19/17, 9:59 AM, "Bret Jordan" <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com> wrote:

   I disagree
   Bret
   
   
   Sent from my iPhone
   
   > On Jul 19, 2017, at 3:39 PM, Trey Darley <trey@newcontext.com> wrote:
   >
   >> On 19.07.2017 12:47:55, Struse, Richard J. wrote:
   >> I’ve come to believe that precision should be optional. The purist
   >> in me wants the text to say that if precision is omitted, the
   >> precision of the lat/long is unspecified. But I’m willing to live
   >> with text that says if precision is unspecified, it defaults to 10km
   >> as John-Mark originally proposed.
   >>
   >
   > Thanks, Rich.
   >
   > I think this is the correct approach.
   >
   > --
   > Cheers,
   > Trey
   > ++--------------------------------------------------------------------------++
   > Director of Standards Development, New Context
   > gpg fingerprint: 3918 9D7E 50F5 088F 823F  018A 831A 270A 6C4F C338
   > ++--------------------------------------------------------------------------++
   > --
   > "No matter how hard you try, you can't make a baby in much less than 9
   > months. Trying to speed this up *might* make it slower, but it won't
   > make it happen any quicker." --RFC 1925
   









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