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Subject: Re: [dita] Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 21 June 2016 uploaded
Stan Doherty has put together a complete set of materials for organizing a DITA Listening session. I’ll ask him to put it into the DITA TC source as well as the Adoption TC.
JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
Comtech Services Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
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Join The Center for Information-Development Management online at IDEAS Summer Conference held July 19-20, 2016. More information at:https://ideas.infomanagementcenter.com/
From: Nancy Harrison <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 3:00 PM
To: DITA TC <email@example.com>
Subject: [dita] Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 21 June 2016 uploaded
1. Kris will forward an email list of all the TC members to Michael, so he can distribute the link to the LwD webinar.
2. Kris will continue to look at the issue of getting OASIS to let us publish something usable as part of our 1.3 errata..
3. Nancy, Bob, and Kris will get together on this how to document the errata items, in addition to updating the spec.
4. Bob will look at the style sheet problems for the committee notes.
5. TC members who've offered to do so will try to make progress in setting up more local listening sessions. Thos who've already done so will try to document tips and hints for setting them up.
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 21 June 2016
Recorded by Nancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00011.html (Nancy Harrison, for 7 June 2016)
Proposed by Kris, seconded by Joe Storbeck, approved by TC
1. Action items
10 May 2016:
Robert and Eliot: Schedule meeting to start work on content model generation (Language Reference topics)
Bob and Nancy: Schedule meeting to start work on builds and style sheet changes needed for 1.3 errata; include Kris
[made progress; move this to be part of errata item]
17 May 2016:
Stan and Keith: Investigate use of Agile among standards organization (COMPLETED)
Bob and Nancy: Examine template for DITA 1.3 errata document (COMPLETED)
7 June 2016:
Michael: Post link to slide share of Webinar
Michael: Investigate whether TC members can view Webinar recording
[Michael got approval to share the webinar with TC, but he hasn't figured out yet how to do it.]
Kris: Develop timeline for DITA 1.3 errata
[Kris will work on it this week.]
Stan: Add issue of why domain elements appear in seemingly strange places to list of Adoption TC white papers
ActionItem; Kris will forward an email list of all the TC members to Michael, so he can distribute the link to the webinar.
New members: None
DITA TC has been nominated for third annual Open Standards Cup
Adoption TC white paper on "User Assistance Enhancements in DITA 1.3
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00019.html (Eberlein, 20 June 2016)
Stan, Don, and Eliot are reviewers; any other volunteers?
3. Continuing item: DITA 1.3 errata
Editors: Robert Anderson and Kris Eberlein
Style sheets: Bob Thomas
Build: Nancy Harrison
Reviews: Joe Storbeck
SEO: Keith Schengli-Roberts
Set up @rev for errata; work errata items related to source (Completed to date)
New: Create list of changes so far
[nancy arleady working on this; will commit draft to SVN and go over it with kris
Catalog files (Completed? New items have surfaced ...)
[hold till Eliot is on call]
Correct content model topics
Search engine optimization
Template from TC Admin: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201605/msg00017.html
DITA errata template: Redlining issue
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00024.html (Eberlein, 21 June 2014)
Bob is working on build process and style sheets, creating new build script to automatically generate variations required by different key values; he's put in tokens for keys and token substitutions; the big issue is the potential need for strikethroughs.
Bob; strikethroughs are not great for our spec; it's not appropriate
Kris; yes, we want this to be readable as a spec, not just as a change document. Since we can't do change bars in the html, which is the authoritative version, it also seems silly to require them for the PDF.
Nancy; In any case, even for content model changes (which are the same change in multiple places, we could put samples of the changes in the change log.
Kris; and we can have differences (in terms of how changes are indicated) between normative and non-normative content.
Scott; we want to be careful about saying we "can't" do strikethroughs; we could, it just wouldn't be useful and it would require polluting our DITA source, which we don't want; we'd have pollution issues, as well as usability/readability/legibility issues
Tom; we could also use change tracking through editing, but that's also polluting. The only 'perfect' thing is a pipe dream; a repository in DeltaXML.
Kris; and thhe pipe dream wouldn't work with our style sheets in any case. We've always intended to donate our style sheets to OASIS for use with other specs. Also, strikethrough in DITA is only allowed at the phrase level, so we couldn't use it for blocks. Now that we've talked through use of linethrough and using xml editors, we need to rephrase our response in terms of readability/usibility/legibility as well as pollution. Having an errata that isn't usable wouldn't serve our users.
Nancy; so it only makes sense to put out an errata if we can do a usable one.
Kris; it's an option to not put out a revised spec with an errata; but we want to try to get Chet and Paul to bend on this.
Tom; is there is an option to produce just a list of errors, plus a brand-new spec?
Kris; no, the 'official' option is to produce just a list of errata, as would go in the front of a book, but no new spec at all. If you put out a new spec, they want the change bars and strikethroughs.
ActionItem; Kris will continue to look at the issue of getting OASIS to let us publish something usable as part of our 1.3 errata..
ActionItem; Nancy, Bob, and Kris will get together on this how to document the errata items, in addition to updating the spec.
4. New item: More Catalog Errata: Public ID for RNG MathML Module
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00009.html (Kimber, 9 June 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00010.html (Kimber, 9 June 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00016.html (Kimber, 15 June 2016)
[hold till Eliot's here]
5. Continuing item: Work on committee notes
Update to "Why Three Editions"
"Upgrading to a new version of DITA" (was "Upgrading to DITA 1.3")
Template from TC Admin: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201605/msg00008.html
PDF plug-in works with DITA-OT 2.3
HTML plug-in fails with DITA-OT 2.3
ActionItem; Bob will look at the style sheet problems for the committee notes.
6. New item: Notes from Adoption TC listening sessions
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201606/msg00022.html (Eberlein, 21 June 2016)
Kris;Adoption TC has been setting up user listening sessions. I listened to them and forwarded these to list this morning. They contain things we need to look at.
Keith; these sessions are and were held in/around Boston area, at beginning of this month, mostly by Stan. Idea was talking to recent DITA adoptees as well as experienced users, to get the good things and bad things about DITA. We've learned a lot about current technical landscape about DITA. The Littleton session had a variety of users.
Kris; anyone looked at these?
Michael; I did, and think they're super valuable; I wasn't paying attention to 'blue' (IBM issues) things that rang a bell were more support or personalization within embedded assistence; requests for JSON support (what kind of swagger); markdown relationship; kita output to JSON to integrate with SWAG; importance of building a relationship with Markdown; lot of pressure to move to Markdown. a good story around Markdown is important for us.
Kris; I noticed no separation in perception of DITA provdes as a standard and what the OT and tools supply. It would be nice if that distinction were clarified, vut it probably won't be.
Keith; even those working in DITA for years, most think one organization is doing both the spec and the tools (!). Many people are looking for improvements to the OT from the TC. We really need to clarify that!
Michael; that confusion is baked into human mindset; no one uses a standard; they use a tool; there's a real mismatch between how they provide feedback and how we parse it.
Kris; I agree; is there a way we can improve community understanding about that? It leads to a real problem in expectation for us as TC
Michael; I'd love to see a decentralized campaign for DITA.
Kris; I'm doing a forum on DITA interaoperability in Stuttgart in November, on exactly that.
Michael; could we just get screenshots from all the different vendors for the same scenario, to show how the same things look different using different vendors?.
Kris; does anyone on the TC have video-editing skills? We can reach out to the larger DITA community; we've done this with graphics.
Amber; we know of companies that have made investments in video with dita; there are folks out there who do this routinely.
Kris; I think of VMware
amber; I thought of them as well
Kris; we can always reach out through dita.xml.org, or thru dita-users.
Amber; LinkedIn's DITA-awareness group also.
Don and Joe will be doing a session this week in Austin area.
Michael; Keith, shall we set one up in Toronto? [Keith agrees.]
Nancy; Shall we do one in Portland [OR}?
Amber; sure; is there a cheat sheet on how to host one successfully?
Keith; I'll compare notes with Stan on how to do it.
Kris; it would be great if there are both TC and Adoption TC hats at these sessions. It's sometimes hard to wear 2 hats simultaneously. Also, should we be aiming at non-techcomm to include? marketing, instructional design, etc.
Kathy. there was no effort to eliminate techcomm, just to find as many users as we could.
Kris; but we may have to reach out more to find non-techcomm folks, wrt organizing it around a techcomm event such as STC or CIDM events..
Amber; the whole Confluence thing, that's been talked about forever...
Michael; some people built some solutions on top of Confluence, then Confluence changed all their APIs and that broke all our mappings. I talked with a company that had a techcomm solution on top of Confluence, they're interested in LwD support, but the challenge was having a client who would pay for development, they couldn't afford to do it for free. Should we talk to Confluence?
Kris; that's past what we can do as a TC.
Don; there's a standing RFE at Confluence for DITA support, but they seem to think they don't need to change what's already there.
ActionItem: TC members who've offered to do so will try to make progress in setting up more local listening sessions. Thos who've already done so will try to document tips and hints for setting them up.
[to be continued]
7. New item: Agile/Scrum Adoption Within Standards Development Organizations
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201605/msg00056.html (Doherty, 30 May 2016)
Kris; fromt he listening session in Littleton, MA; there was a comment that working in Agile means higher frequency of releases. more modular, less duplication, wrt projects. OTOH, this may not be completely compatible with working on standards.
8. New item: OASIS Jira for DITA TC use?
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201605/msg00038.html (Scott Hudson, 24 May 2016)
Scott; I got docs from Chet, on the topic of best practices for Jira from other TCs, and I used those to set up something for us, but if folks have reviewed the doc, we need to discuss how we might want to use this Jira.
Kris; I looked at the docs; from what I saw, some TCs use Jira to do agenda setting, so that every proposed agenda item is an item in Jira, and that's how they do the TC calls, Another way is us use Jira to track bugs and defects. I think we have agenda-setting working for us, so I'd resist using Jira as agenda driver.
Scott; i was loooking it as a way to track proposals and fixes thru the process
Nancy; if we going to use it, we want to try it out on something we're about to start, not something we're already doing.
Bob; Jira may be more formal than what we need, maybe Slack would be better, something less formal than Jira and Trello.
Scott; one problem is that these tools aren't really supported by OASIS.
Kris; we've already fought that battle; if OASIS tools aren't available, we find something else. Are there volunteers to consider this and read Scott's doc? [Dick volunteered]
[continue next week]
12:00 PM ET Close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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