[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
Bah and humbug. This looks like the fun part!
Please everyone do me a favor, and remove Tony Scott, John Jackson and
Pat Snack from the replies... I want to communicate to them at a high
level when there is change or movement happening.
thank you.
john
ps - i'm pretty thick-skinned. i also have wrath like a woman scorned.
; >
Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
> I think that we may be a pack of pedantic creeps :-)
>
> I'm sure John is cursing us right now ;p
>
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
>> Thanks John - that clears it up. ebMS v3, not ebXML v3. I now retract my
>> original observation. :)
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Joseph Chiusano
>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] Sent: Thursday,
>>> February 03, 2005 10:01 AM
>>> To: Matthew MacKenzie
>>> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; David Webber (XML); Monica J. Martin; Duane
>>> Nickull; dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
>>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; golsen@contivo.com; John
>>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net;
>>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>
>>> OK, I am now learning to be very specific. I am referring to ebMS v3.
>>>
>>> Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> Where did this vision come from? I didn't get the memo.
>>>
>>> Certainly,
>>>
>>>> the ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that
>>>
>>> direction,
>>>
>>>> but I don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward
>>>
>>> that vision.
>>>
>>>
>>>> -matt
>>>>
>>>> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public
>>>
>>> information
>>>
>>>>> on this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> Joseph Chiusano
>>>>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] Sent:
>>>>>> Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
>>>>>> To: David Webber (XML)
>>>>>> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull;
>>>>>> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
>>>>>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
>>>>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
>>>
>>> golsen@contivo.com; John
>>>
>>>>>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net;
>>>>>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That would be the list, thanks David.
>>>>>> Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to
>>>>>> encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other WS*
>>>>>> specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious
>>>
>>> point is that
>>>
>>>>>> we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the other side....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Webber (XML) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated
>>>
>>> architecture
>>>
>>>>>>> that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, DW
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
>>>>>>> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica
>>>
>>> J. Martin"
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <david@drrw.info>; "Duane
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>;
>>>>>>> <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>;
>>>>>>> <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas"
>>>>>>> <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>;
>>>>>>> <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "James Bryce Clark"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Quote>
>>>>>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
>>>>>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph Chiusano
>>>>>>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>>>>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
>>>>>>>> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
>>>>>>>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
>>>>>>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> golsen@contivo.com; John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net;
>>>>>>>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I
>>>
>>> would like to
>>>
>>>>>>>> enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing
>>>
>>> activities or
>>>
>>>>>> just for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about
>>>>>>>> addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
>>>
>>> conversation with Jamie
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> the other night, and got some direction from both him and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from Duane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a
>>>>>>>> braindump how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll
>>>
>>> plan on being
>>>
>>>>>>>> on the call next Wed if allowed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with the work
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> interoperability among the upcoming business process
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> frameworks (WS*,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain
>>>
>>> dominance). The
>>>
>>>>>>>> request-response model is a very simplistic view that
>>>
>>> isn't
>>>
>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mapping well onto the true complexity that large
>>>
>>> industries have
>>>
>>>>>>>> developed in their shared business processes. For
>>>
>>> example,
>>>
>>>>>> no one will
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> industry is a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> request-response model between two partners. Healthcare
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> is another
>>>
>>>>>>>> area that is very complex, and requires multiple
>>>>>>
>>>>>> interactions between
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> large numbers of process participants to complete the
>>>
>>> information
>>>
>>>>>>>> exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other reality is that process participants require constant
>>>>>>>> realtime feeds of information from many points in the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> process, which
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are owned and offered by various companies of various
>>>
>>> sizes and IT
>>>
>>>>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>>>>> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> operating
>>>
>>>>>>>> framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
>>>>>>>> that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
>>>>>>>> causation techniques and other things like shared
>>>
>>> industry process
>>>
>>>>>>>> B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that
>>>
>>> we need to:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps
>>>
>>> (ebXML v3 is
>>>
>>>>>>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize,
>>>
>>> real world use
>>>
>>>>>>>> cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> shine a light
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on successful implementations
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
>>>>>>>> agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the
>>>
>>> SemWeb/Agent stuff
>>>
>>>>>>>> is the long-term target)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
>>>
>>> consistent
>>>
>>>>>>>> direction towards convergence
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> verge of a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> potential of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> potential is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> business has
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> want to build
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, this level of information integration won't
>>>
>>> happen unless:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> a) the path to implementation of standards based
>>>
>>> messaging between
>>>
>>>>>>>> partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long,
>>>
>>> drawn out
>>>
>>>>>>>> mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
>>>
>>> entire
>>>
>>>>>> movement)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> of these
>>>
>>>>>>>> problems. I would like to help by completing the
>>>
>>> patterns and the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to
>>>
>>> describe
>>>
>>>>>> it. There
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> groups that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are building shared business processes (which by the way, look
>>>>>>>> much more complex than simple request-response models).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's it, I guess....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>> 313.930.5323
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Monica J. Martin wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>> On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MacKenzie was
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> could provide
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> based on its
>>>
>>>>>>>>> original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an
>>>
>>> update
>>>
>>>>>> on ebSOA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ebSOA would
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> assist in defining the next generation architecture
>>>
>>> for
>>>
>>>>>> ebXML. Your
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>> john c hardin
>>>>>>>> sanghainteractive.com
>>>>>>>> 313.930.5323 cell
>>>>>>>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>>>> the image
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of a global village."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>> john c hardin
>>>>>> sanghainteractive.com
>>>>>> 313.930.5323 cell
>>>>>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world
>>>
>>> in the image
>>>
>>>>>> of a global village."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~~~~~~~~~
>>> john c hardin
>>> sanghainteractive.com
>>> 313.930.5323 cell
>>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>>
>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image
>>> of a global village."
>>>
>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
~~~~~~~~~
john c hardin
sanghainteractive.com
313.930.5323 cell
mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of
a global village."
Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]