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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
In the comments I'm putting together, I say that exactly. Ken On Dec 12, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Rex Brooks wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I've already said that I think WSML less than > optimal, but as I read the spec, it should be > possible to construct an OWL representation, and > perhaps we should suggest such in addition to the > WSML representation, as opposed to the the clumsy > disclaimer language about it. > > Cheers, > Rex > > At 10:50 AM -0500 12/12/08, Ken Laskey wrote: >> Let me repeat that the OASIS comment procedure >> is abysmal and goes too far into turning any TC >> into a private club with an OASIS letterhead. >> >> Ken >> >> On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Mary McRae wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> FYI, unless one is a *member* of the TC, the >>> *only* way you can respond is via the comment >>> list, which requires subscription and agreement >>> of the IPR feedback license. That said, the TC >>> could reach out to the Semantic Execution TC >>> and request to establish a liaison relationship >>> (a member of this TC would join the other and >>> hopefully vice versa). >>> >>> Mary >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Peter F Brown [mailto:peter@pensive.eu] >>>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:57 AM >>>> To: Mike Poulin >>>> Cc: SOA RA >>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference >>>> Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>> >>>> Indeed, how to respond is the main question >>>> >>>> Tactically, I think replying just in the name of the SAO-RM/RA TC >>>> will >>>> put is a pigeon-hole of whining "they would say that wouldn't they" >>>> even if the concerns we raise are legit. >>>> >>>> I think a few well aimed kicks from some of the bigger kickers >>>> would >>>> have more impact - for the record, our company will lodge a >>>> negative >>>> vote with comments - the schema being in WSML and the statement >>>> in the >>>> proposed spec. that "only WSML" can deliver the "really machine >>>> processable" semantic SOA, must be challenged - it's both wrong >>>> and, >>>> even if cortrest, would smack of vendor lock-in if promoted by >>>> anyone >>>> other than a research institute (albeit a very "profitable" one) >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:50 PM >>>> To: SOA RA >>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of >>>> Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>> >>>> >>>> You know that I do agree with Peter. >>>> >>>> The question is: how we plan to respond - as a STC or individually? >>>> >>>> - Michael >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Peter F Brown" <peter@pensive.eu> >>>>> To: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>, "Mike Poulin" >>>> <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Jeffrey A. Estefan" >>>> <jeffrey.a.estefan@jpl.nasa.gov> >>>>> Cc: "SOA RA" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference >>>> Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:07:25 +0100 >>>>> >>>>> I'll give my ¤0.02, FWIW >>>>> The institute in Innsbruck has had its own axe to grind for >>>>> several >>>>> years and is trying to corner a market for their brand of semantic >>>>> web technologies based on some "standards" they have developed >>>>> around WSMO: "not invented here" is not a mantra with these guys, >>>>> it's party policy - FUD and marginalise anything else. You'll >>>>> notice that the schema they submit is in WSML, not any "open" >>>>> schema language - probably grounds alone for voting the proposal >>>>> down. >>>>> >>>>> Mike is right that they are WS-only but, in their opinion "pure" >>>>> WS >>>>> (their brand of course). >>>>> >>>>> They don't even see the irony in naming the standard "semantic >>>>> SOA" >>>>> - WTF is SOA if it isn't about semantics and semantic engagement? >>>>> D'oh.... >>>>> >>>>> I would have no qualms about the SOA RM or RA TCs coming out >>>>> publicly against endorsement - we did a lot of work to cut the >>>>> crap >>>>> and hype around "SOA == WS" and we shouldn't remain silent if that >>>>> is being undermined by a half-witted effort that, even if not >>>>> taken >>>>> seriously, will just add more FUD... >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:05 PM >>>>> To: Mike Poulin; Jeffrey A. Estefan; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis- >>>>> open.org >>>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] FW: [members] Public Review of >>>>> Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>> >>>>> One of their guys came to an architects summit in Zurich. He was >>>>> really old school and did not seem to understand anything newer >>>>> than Pascal. >>>>> >>>>> D >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/12/08 3:08 AM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Terrible! >>>>> >>>>> There are none SOA expert in the Committee; there is no >>>>> understanding of SOA Service based on SOA RM/RA - only Web >>>>> Services; SOA is interpreted as "a computer architecture that >>>>> allows for scalable and controlled Enterprise Application >>>>> Integration solutions" which has as little to do with RM/RA as a >>>>> brook with an ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Were anybody of you contacted by Semantic Technology Institute >>>>> Innsbruck ever? Do they know about our existence? >>>>> >>>>> I can go and try to find some rational seeds in the draft but its >>>>> basis is fundamentally wrong to my opinion, it is not a SOA >>>>> semantics but Web Service and Web Semantics. Any considerations? >>>>> >>>>> - Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Estefan, Jeff A" <jeffrey.a.estefan@jpl.nasa.gov> >>>>>> To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis- >>>> open.org> >>>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] FW: [members] Public Review of Reference >>>>>> Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>>> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 22:13:46 -0800 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How 'bout that folks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Now your chance to weigh in on the public review. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers... >>>>>> >>>>>> - jae >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Mary McRae [mailto:marypmcrae@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mary >>>> McRae >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:54 PM >>>>>> To: members@lists.oasis-open.org; tc-announce@lists.oasis- >>>>>> open.org >>>>>> Subject: [members] Public Review of Reference Ontology for >>>>>> Semantic >>>> SOA v1.0 >>>>>> >>>>>> To OASIS members, Public Announce Lists: >>>>>> >>>>>> The OASIS Semantic Execution Environment TC has recently approved >>>> the >>>>>> following specification as a Committee Draft and approved the >>>> package for >>>>>> public review: >>>>>> >>>>>> Reference Ontology for Semantic Service Oriented Architectures >>>> Version 1.0 >>>>>> >>>>>> The public review starts today, 9 December 2008, and ends 7 >>>> February 2009. >>>>>> This is an open invitation to comment. We strongly encourage >>>> feedback from >>>>>> potential users, developers and others, whether OASIS members or >>>> not, for >>>>>> the sake of improving the interoperability and quality of OASIS >>>> work. Please >>>>>> feel free to distribute this announcement within your >>>>>> organization >>>> and to >>>>>> other appropriate mail lists. >>>>>> >>>>>> More non-normative information about the specification and the >>>> technical >>>>>> committee may be found at the public home page of the TC at >>>>>> http://www.oasis- >>>> open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=semantic-ex. >>>>>> Comments may be submitted to the TC by any person through the use >>>> of the >>>>>> OASIS TC Comment Facility which can be located via the button >>>> marked "Send A >>>>>> Comment" at the top of that page, or directly at >>>>>> http://www.oasis- >>>> open.org/committees/comments/index.php?wg_abbrev=semantic-e >>>>>> x. >>>>>> >>>>>> Submitted comments (for this work as well as other works of that >>>> TC) are >>>>>> publicly archived and can be viewed at >>>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/semantic-ex-comment/. All >>>> comments >>>>>> submitted to OASIS are subject to the OASIS Feedback License, >>>>>> which >>>> ensures >>>>>> that the feedback you provide carries the same obligations at >>>>>> least >>>> as the >>>>>> obligations of the TC members. >>>>>> >>>>>> The specification document and related files are available here: >>>>>> >>>>>> Editable Source: >>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see- >>>>>> rosoa- >>>> v1.0-pr01. >>>>>> doc >>>>>> >>>>>> PDF: >>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see- >>>>>> rosoa- >>>> v1.0-pr01. >>>>>> pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> HTML: >>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see- >>>>>> rosoa- >>>> v1.0-pr01. >>>>>> html >>>>>> >>>>>> Schema: >>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see- >>>>>> rosoa- >>>> v1.0.wsml >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> OASIS and the Semantic Execution Environment TC welcome your >>>> comments. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Mary P McRae >>>>>> Director, Technical Committee Administration >>>>>> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society >>>>>> email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org >>>>>> web: www.oasis-open.org >>>>>> phone: 1.603.232.9090 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> This email list is used solely by OASIS for official consortium >>>>>> communications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Opt-out requests may be sent to member-services@oasis-open.org, >>>>>> however, all members are strongly encouraged to maintain a >>>>>> subscription to this list. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> -- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >>>> that >>>>>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS >>>>>> at: >>>>>> https://www.oasis- >>>> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com! >>>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses >>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >>>>> that >>>>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS >>>>> at: >>>>> https://www.oasis- >>>> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>> Senior Technical Evangelist - Adobe Systems, Inc. >>>>> Duane's World TV Show - http://tv.adobe.com/#pg+1537 >>>>> Blog - http://technoracle.blogspot.com >>>>> I am a Twit - http://twitter.com/duanechaos >>>>> Community Music - http://www.mix2r.com >>>>> My Band - http://www.myspace.com/22ndcentury >>>>> >>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >>>>> that >>>>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS >>>>> at: >>>>> https://www.oasis- >>>> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com! >>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses >>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >>>> that >>>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ken Laskey >> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >> McLean VA 22102-7508 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/ >> my_workgroups.php > > > -- > Rex Brooks > President, CEO > Starbourne Communications Design > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > Berkeley, CA 94702 > Tel: 510-898-0670 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Laskey MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 McLean VA 22102-7508
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