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Subject: Re: [docbook-apps] Re: html 5, as a target

Dave Pawson wrote:

>> These elements are not supported in IE6/7 and they can't be CSS styled
>> there without using supplement Javascript library.
> That doesn't make sense to me Jirka. They are elements, CSS can be used,
> why not? 
> If the fallback does no harm in ancient browsers, whats the problem?

Because IE6 will create wrong DOM for those elements, e.g.


is represented as


So you can't effectively apply CSS on section container.

>>> Far easier image scaling.
>> I don't know which HTML5 feature you mean by this.
> http://diveintohtml5.org/canvas.html#images
> Look at how many times users have asked on this list about scaling
> graphics? 

I don't see how this can help. You can scale images on canvas, but
canvas has its own dimension. You can set those directly on img element.
Also placing image as canvas + JS to rendering is really bad design if
you can use img directly.

>>> Equally, I'm curious to know how far back in the browser chain you'd
>>> like to go with docbook support? Netscape?
>> IE6 is still very widespread, especially in large corporations.
>> Default stylesheets output should definitively work in it.
> Is that it? Is the TC supportive of this position? How long will it
> remain the oldest target?

This doesn't have anything to do with TC. TC just manages DocBook
markup. DocBook stylesheets are maintained by informal group of developers.

> This is Mark Pilgrims script to aid support for older browsers
> in the IE family.
> <!--[if lt IE 9]>
> <script>
> var e = ("abbr,article,aside,audio,canvas,datalist,details," +
> "figure,footer,header,hgroup,mark,menu,meter,nav,output," +
> "progress,section,time,video").split(',');
> for (var i = 0; i <e.length; i++) {
> document.createElement(e[i]);
> }
> </script>

What's real advantage of using:

<article> + above show funky Javascript

over completely static and proven:

<div class="article">

? To my knowledge there is no single real advantage except you can say
that you are cool because you are using new HTML5 markup. IMHO this is
not enough justification for changing stylesheets output. There are much
important features and bugs in queue.


  Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirka@kosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
       Professional XML consulting and training services
  DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document processing
 OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO JTC1/SC34 member

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