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Subject: Re: [docbook-apps] Re: html 5, as a target

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:35:42 +0200
Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz> wrote:

> Dave Pawson wrote:
> > I'm curious why you are so anti? 
> I'm not anti, I'm trying to be pragmatic. And I don't see what
> advantages can bring HTML5 output generated from DocBook to end users.
> > Would you argue against all its features:
> > A11y
> Do you have idea how and when DocBook markup should be mapped to
> aria-*?

I'm looking at current html5 markup, quite a step up from current html

> > structure
> > navigation
> These elements are not supported in IE6/7 and they can't be CSS styled
> there without using supplement Javascript library.

That doesn't make sense to me Jirka. They are elements, CSS can be used,
why not? 
If the fallback does no harm in ancient browsers, whats the problem?

> Anyway those elements doesn't bring any new user experience.
But they do bring better semantics?

> > media
> OK, we can map audioobject/videobject to respective HTML5 elements. Is
> there anyone who uses these elements in real life DocBook documents?

Currently no, simply because they aren't available in docbook. They
could be. 

> > easier mathml, svg
> This is not well supported by all browsers, usually you have to use
> some additional Javascript library to get MathML support in wider
> range of browsers (http://www.mathjax.org/). (Btw, I hope to
> integrate support for MathJax into stylesheets soon.)

Wouldn't direct support be better? Irrespective of timescales?

> > microdata
> Should we support microdata as the most widespread technology today?
> Or RDFa which fits nicely with SemanticWeb (which itself is little bit
> broken). Or microdata because Hixie can create his best markup for any
> problem?

I'd look at it as an option, though I do agree it is distinctly biassed.

> Which kind of semantics/metadata from DocBook should be turned into
> microformats?

From the examples I saw, the opportunities for web search struck me
as tempting for any docbook user on the web. 

> > Far easier image scaling.
> I don't know which HTML5 feature you mean by this.

Look at how many times users have asked on this list about scaling

> > Equally, I'm curious to know how far back in the browser chain you'd
> > like to go with docbook support? Netscape?
> IE6 is still very widespread, especially in large corporations.
> Default stylesheets output should definitively work in it.

Is that it? Is the TC supportive of this position? How long will it
remain the oldest target?

Again, I'd check on the viability of the fallback options.
If the TC want to support IE6, then the mandate should be to 
verify the utility of the fallback in that browser.

This is Mark Pilgrims script to aid support for older browsers
in the IE family.

<!--[if lt IE 9]>
var e = ("abbr,article,aside,audio,canvas,datalist,details," +
"figure,footer,header,hgroup,mark,menu,meter,nav,output," +
for (var i = 0; i <e.length; i++) {



Dave Pawson

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